FIRE in power module

[Mark Heaps]

Looks like Armortek are not going to post a response or explanation of what caused my new style power module to burst into flames.
I have heard nothing from them, and there was I considering placing an order for the Leopard in a few months time . The fire still haunts me.’

Looks like you are being too impatient and not giving them time to find out what caused it. I am sure they will post a response when they have one to provide. I believe they do not manufacture the modules in-house but have them manufactured. They will have to get the failed module back to their supplier and wait for them to investigate it and ascertain the root cause, design error (affecting the whole batch) or manufacturing error (one-off).
I can also understand Armorteks reluctance to provide you with an immediate replacement before it has had a chance to be examined in case it is a design error and the whole lot have to be recalled.
Without being able to look inside the box, I would think it is not a power-supply but just a power distribution, simple circuit board with tracks and power connectors, fuse-holders and spade connectors for the volt meter soldered in. No electronic components apart from the external voltmeter.
My suspicion in your case is that the soldered connections on the power input plug came into contact with the casing shorting them out. Possible causes if that is the case, missing stand-off mount or spacer ( one-off human error ), mount or spacer breaking away ( component failure or incorrect torque setting used when fitting, problem with manufacturing batch ), stand-off space not sufficient ( design error affecting all )
I am certain that Armortek are just as keen as the rest of us to know what the cause was. Just give them time to find out.

[Armortek]

Further UPDATE…..

As stated I called in on Armortek last Thursday…
Kian was reluctant to let me have a replacement power supply module until he had chance to examine the burnt module. After a lot of persuasion he agreed and I took a new one home.

Brian - when you visited you complained because I wanted to do a proper assessment and now you complain again when we do not provide you with an update on your timeline.


This afternoon we identified the issue with the PCB Board. It is an inconsistent issue so even if the board works at the moment, there is still a risk.

We are emailing people who have the new style board to stop using them immediately and disconnect them from power. We will be sending replacements out once they have been manufactured.

If you have the old style then there are no issues - see images below:

NEW STYLE - STOP USING AND DISCONNECT FROM POWER

NEW STYLE POWER MODULE

NEW POWER MODULE.jpg (96.81 KiB) Viewed 2436 times

OLD STYLE - CAN CONTINUE TO BE USED

OLD STYLE POWER MODULE

[Brian Womersley]

Thankyou Kian for eventually posting a response.
I feel I was justified in my complaints but if it has upset you, please accept my apologies.
You have had my defective burnt out board since the 20th July as I drove over to you especially. I knew what the problem was and that I may not have been your only customer to have received a defective module. You rejected my request to remove the four screws and look inside the box. No, you did not look at it until this afternoon after my posting a couple of hours earlier.
Your quality control procedures should have revealed all the defective soldered joints within the box.
The first thing I did when I got home was to check the quality of the soldering in my replacement module… totally different to the burnt one.
I personally do not see any need to redesign the modules as all that is needed is a visual inspection of the soldering and future quality control , but how many others are out there?

[Brian Womersley]

Looks like Armortek are not going to post a response or explanation of what caused my new style power module to burst into flames.
I have heard nothing from them, and there was I considering placing an order for the Leopard in a few months time . The fire still haunts me.’

Looks like you are being too impatient and not giving them time to find out what caused it. I am sure they will post a response when they have one to provide. I believe they do not manufacture the modules in-house but have them manufactured. They will have to get the failed module back to their supplier and wait for them to investigate it and ascertain the root cause, design error (affecting the whole batch) or manufacturing error (one-off).
I can also understand Armorteks reluctance to provide you with an immediate replacement before it has had a chance to be examined in case it is a design error and the whole lot have to be recalled.
Without being able to look inside the box, I would think it is not a power-supply but just a power distribution, simple circuit board with tracks and power connectors, fuse-holders and spade connectors for the volt meter soldered in. No electronic components apart from the external voltmeter.
My suspicion in your case is that the soldered connections on the power input plug came into contact with the casing shorting them out. Possible causes if that is the case, missing stand-off mount or spacer ( one-off human error ), mount or spacer breaking away ( component failure or incorrect torque setting used when fitting, problem with manufacturing batch ), stand-off space not sufficient ( design error affecting all )
I am certain that Armortek are just as keen as the rest of us to know what the cause was. Just give them time to find out.

Mark Heaps… Looks like my impatience was well and truly justified . Shame it took so long .

[Aaron Taylor]

Disregard post

[Brian Womersley]

Thankyou Kian for eventually posting a response.
I feel I was justified in my complaints but if it has upset you, please accept my apologies.
You have had my defective burnt out board since the 20th July as I drove over to you especially. I knew what the problem was and that I may not have been your only customer to have received a defective module. You rejected my request for you to remove the four screws and look inside the box. No, you did not look at it until this afternoon after my posting a couple of hours earlier.
Your quality control procedures should have revealed all the defective soldered joints within the box.
The first thing I did when I got home was to check the quality of the soldering in my replacement module… totally different to the burnt one.
I personally do not see any need to redesign the modules as all that is needed is a visual inspection of the soldering and future quality control , but how many others are out there?

[Aaron Taylor]

I would like to know when the options packs are going to be available is there going to be further delay as it doesn't look like the 2nd half of July is going to happen?

[John Clarke]

I must say I do like the look of the new style power supply unit, individual protection on the auxiliary outputs seems a logical improvement, not only to the circuit but could help in any future fault finding problems. (Being able to isolate individual circuits by just pulling a fuse)

I'm sure there'll be teething problems with new equipment, but the use of smaller individual boxes definitely has is bonuses especially on the smaller models.
The need for good quality electrical jointing is paramount, not so much "Loose lips sinks ships" more like "loose wires starts fires".

It is difficult to see or know what a good connection is because the insulation tends to be sufficient to be block any connection from the eye, weather it be wrapped or locked in a box. Warranty buggered if either opened or removed.

The option packs are expensive kit, designed for the models we build, some might say better than custom builds because they have been specifically designed for the model by the manufacturer. Second hand buyers like to see original parts and some depend on the manufacturer to build a quality product because they prefer that professional direction to their own amateur skill and knowledge.

Mistakes happen, dry joints, loose connections occur. The circuit designs seem pretty solid, it's just sometimes there maybe a lack of focus or skill during manufacture, which shouldn't happen knowing what some of these models will draw current wise. But sometimes it does.

As I have said I've had a few problems with poorly made plugs on Chieftain's option packs. I reported this to Armortek and they said they'd look into it.
Since it was going to be some time before fitting the options packs I repaired all of them myself, that way I'd be sure when the time came there'd be no worries in that department. Warranty was stuffed anyway time wise. Nothing guaranteed for ever. (Only love)
(Stay on the right side of Armortek, They have all the spares. )

I have seen that the idea of a main fuse of, lets say 50amp may protect the model from fire, It might, it might not, I've seen model boats smoldering away on 15 amps, and I don't put fuses in submarines for obvious reasons.

Build and check the electrical circuit carefully, if there is a problem, over heating included, scorching, let Armortek know and I'm sure they'll be ready to help out.
If out of warranty and you need to repair a plug or socket, check out the "how to" You tube clips for proper jointing and connecting.

Remember fit some sort of isolator, don't let your model turn into a Panther D Hold on, is that an A or G, all look the same on fire

1032449857_BurningPanther(2).jpg.1891f09d3d544a5d0b34ef5a0a4bd8da.jpg (31.38 KiB) Viewed 2051 times

[Mark Heaps]

Mark Heaps… Looks like my impatience was well and truly justified . Shame it took so long .

Investigation has revealed the whole batch has had to be re-called. Your impatience in getting a replacement immediately is therefor not justified as the replacement has had to be recalled.
Are you trained and qualified to visually inspect solder joints and therefore state that that is what the problem was? I am. It is part of what I do for a job in the electronics manufacturing industry.
Any "reported" fire in any module we produce is taken extremely seriously as it should not happen under any fault circumstances. Spark or smoulder possibly but self-sustaining flames definitely not.
If I had been Kian or if I had been there at the time and employed by Armortek, I can guarantee you would not have walked away with an immediate replacement. You would have had to wait for a replacement untill I knew what had caused it to happen, and I knew that the replacement was safe to use.

[ChrisWahl]

Just to follow up on my Mod B fire post here is a pic of the inside. This was a bench test with zero load.

[Armortek]

Chris - your issue has nothing to do with the Power Module. As mentioned in my emails to you, it looks like your module B shorted. The only time I have seen this happen to a Module A or B was when the drive motor leads touched each other.

With regards to the new style power module - we had tested this under 60A loads and had no issues. We also ran it to the point where we destroyed two main drive motors and still no issues. However, we did find another board that had a problem when we put it under a very light load.
Our hypothesis is that the copper trace in the vias was inconsistent or the solder pads had some sort of issue - this meant there was a bad contact which then heated up and caught fire.

We could spend time investigating further, but that would delay matters further and as we will not use that design anymore there is no point. Instead we are providing replacements for all the impacted power modules and we are moving back to our tried and tested previous design.

I will now close this thread.

If you have any questions, contact us directly via email.