Roy's StuG III (no. 2020/10)

[yves mouton]

Hello,

I did Loctite on the outher ring of the bearing ( fix in to the drive case )
The drive shaft will be lockt by the tapper bush so normaly it dont hit the side panel of the stug.

Regards Yves

[Harm Staghouwer]

Hello Roy,

Nice to see your StuG III getting together. I will follow your build and gain information on how I should / could build mine

Regards Harm

[Roy Beukeveld]

...I did Loctite on the outher ring of the bearing ( fix in to the drive case )
The drive shaft will be lockt by the tapper bush so normaly it dont hit the side panel of the stug...

Hi Yves, do you mean that you didn't loctite the bearing to the gearshaft?

...I will follow your build and gain information on how I should / could build mine...

Hi Harm, Well it's my first kit, so I'm not the most experienced builder out here, but if my build in any way can help yours than I'm glad

Today i took most of the dry fit assembly apart, and started the 'real' build. Deburred, sanded and degreased parts of the lower hull and started etch priming the first parts.

This is as far as I dry fitted the major parts:

[David Battson]

Hi Roy,
Nice start on your Stug. I’m a great believer in the benefits of a dry fit to help plan ahead and see what needs to be done.
Regards the final drive gear, it should really be fixed in some way to the gear case bearings as there is no guarantee that the sprocket taper lock will end up tight to the outer bearing to hold everything in place. If you are concerned about the gear touching the side and have access to a lathe, you could try the modification I set out on page 19 of Vince Cutajar’s excellent Tiger 1 late 2017 build log.
David

[yves mouton]

Hello Roy,

Yes i didnt not clue the bearings on the shaft,
the tapper bush will lock the shaft.
I did only loctite on the outer ring of the bearing to fix them in the drive case house.

Best regards Yves

[Roy Beukeveld]

Hi Roy,
Nice start on your Stug. I’m a great believer in the benefits of a dry fit to help plan ahead and see what needs to be done.
Regards the final drive gear, it should really be fixed in some way to the gear case bearings as there is no guarantee that the sprocket taper lock will end up tight to the outer bearing to hold everything in place. If you are concerned about the gear touching the side and have access to a lathe, you could try the modification I set out on page 19 of Vince Cutajar’s excellent Tiger 1 late 2017 build log.
David

Hi David, for now I'll choose the route of glueing the bearing in the casing and on the shaft. I can feel the gear lying beneath the mounting surface of the casing so i think the clearance should be sufficient. But it will be something to keep an eye out for.

Regarding the solution you provided in Vince's build log, that looks very nice for sure. When it does scrape after all this will be something to go for. I do have access to a lathe so it can be done.

Thanks for the help

Hello Roy,

Yes i didnt not clue the bearings on the shaft,
the tapper bush will lock the shaft.
I did only loctite on the outer ring of the bearing to fix them in the drive case house.

Best regards Yves

Hi Yves, When it's clamped in place maintenance in the future will be easier because the parts can be disassembled more easy...
Two possible solution approaches for the situation

[Roy Beukeveld]

Hi guys,

I spent the past days preparing and priming some parts of the StuG, mostly lower hull and engine deck parts.
I try to paint as many parts individually as possible, on the lower hull it can be done on most parts from what I have seen.
Most parts on this photo were primed again today in oxide red.

[Tom OBrien]

Roy and Others,

RE: Road Wheel Assembly, Page 08 of the Instructions.

I've begun building my Stug III and have already made the mistake of setting the 2.5X16 PIN into the assembled swing arms (CLO205) for all 12 swing arms. I took "Drill through and fit pin after assembly" to mean assembly of CLO205 into CLO204. I should have pinned six on one side of CLO204 and six on the other as the swing arms are oriented rearward toward the idler wheel. Anyway, I'll drill through the grub holes in CLO205, tap them for the M4x4 grub and it should still have enough strength to bear the torque of the torsion bars.

But here's my question to builders. The instructions are to mate two wheel halves (CLO201) together and pin them with two M4x22 pins (using loctite in the process). Are two pins enough to hold the two wheel halves together??? I would have thought the designers would have bolted them together like you see in the Tiger I and others. I'm wondering if I should add my own bolts for peace of mind, although it would alter the look of the wheel sets.

The other observation is, when mating the two wheel halves together, there is insufficient clearance or gap for the track horns to ride as they should inside the gap. The gap should be a bit wider otherwise the track horns will tend to force separation of the two wheel halves. I would think the two pins holding the wheel halves together would eventually come loose. (The M4x8 CSK and CPO142 retainer should hold the wheels on, but still, I would expect the wheel halves to separate).

Does anyone else have these concerns or is it just me? Perhaps Kian can help.

Cheers... Tom

[Roy Beukeveld]

Hi Tom,

Regarding the 2,5x16 pin, I'm not sure I understand your question exactly, the manual states "drill through and fit pin after assembly".
Well, that's what I did. The 2,5mm hole was drilled already entirely through part CL0204 (swimgarm) so I screwed in part CL0205 and drilled through the two existing holes, through both parts. After that I put in the pin. This in my opinion is the same for all twelve positions.
One thing I'm not sure about is if the pin is in tight enough. I drilled 2,5mm which might have been a few hundreds too large to clamp the pin tight enough in place.

I did not make the permanent wheel assemblies yet, but regarding the clearance for the track horns, how does it look when the tires are fitted?

[LesBernell]

I'm building the Panzer iii (2018) and my plans don't show the utilization of 2 M4x22 pins to hold the wheels (CL0201) together. My wheels are a little wobbly (Very little) and the wheel halves have a little space between them. It seems to me that if they were pinned together, the track horns would cause excessive wear on the wheels or track horns; something has to give.
Can someone post a picture of the plans that show the utilization of the 2 M4x22 pins? Do they utilize the holes that the CL0224 (Tube insert) use?
Les

[Tom OBrien]

I'm building the Panzer iii (2018) and my plans don't show the utilization of 2 M4x22 pins to hold the wheels (CL0201) together. My wheels are a little wobbly (Very little) and the wheel halves have a little space between them. It seems to me that if they were pinned together, the track horns would cause excessive wear on the wheels or track horns; something has to give.
Can someone post a picture of the plans that show the utilization of the 2 M4x22 pins? Do they utilize the holes that the CL0224 (Tube insert) use?
Les

Yes, same concerns here concerning the M4x22 pins holding the two wheel halves together. From what I can see in the drawing, the pins should go into the smaller of the two sizes of holes in the wheel, the larger hole intended to accept the CLO224 "tube fittings" on the outside wheel. I assume the CLO224 fittings will stay in, once pressed into their respective holes in the wheel, and also, with some loctite.

[Tom OBrien]

Hi Tom,

Regarding the 2,5x16 pin, I'm not sure I understand your question exactly, the manual states "drill through and fit pin after assembly".
Well, that's what I did. The 2,5mm hole was drilled already entirely through part CL0204 (swimgarm) so I screwed in part CL0205 and drilled through the two existing holes, through both parts. After that I put in the pin. This in my opinion is the same for all twelve positions.
One thing I'm not sure about is if the pin is in tight enough. I drilled 2,5mm which might have been a few hundreds too large to clamp the pin tight enough in place.

I did not make the permanent wheel assemblies yet, but regarding the clearance for the track horns, how does it look when the tires are fitted?

Roy,

My comment regarding the 2.5X16 pin was that the grub screws for the swing arm part 204 should be oriented upward on both the left and right sides of the vehicle. My observation (and mistake) was that If you screw the part that holds the torsion bar in place (CLO205) all the way into the swing arm (CLO204), and do that for all the parts CLO205 and CLO204, the swing arms on the left side of the vehicle should be fitted with the pins on "top" of the swing arm as seen in the drawing on p.08, and the pins for the swing arms on the right side of the vehicle should be fitted with the pins on the "bottom" of the swing arms (not demonstrated in the drawing but they would be on the opposite side of the swing arm).

The alternate way is to screw 205 into 204 stopping 1/2 turn short so that for the swing arms (204) on the right side of the vehicle will have their part 205 with the grub screw facing upward rather than downward or nearly against the floor of the vehicle. Had I taken the time to mock it up, I would have discovered this solution, but I pinned all of the swing arms on "top" too soon.

As to fitting the pins, I usually opt to drill holes just slightly bigger than the pin, so a drill bit of say, 2.51 or 2.52, should allow the pin to be tapped into the hole without having to apply excessive force with a hammer, which can damage the swing arm, bend the pin, etc.

I apologize for the lengthy narrative, I'm sure it bores you as much as it does me.

cheers... Tom

[Armortek]

I dont understand what the issue is with the m4x22 pins.
They are there to stop the wheels rotating independently and was an improvement made on this model vs previous PIII/ STUG III kits.

[Roy Beukeveld]

Hi Tom, not a bore, don’t worry

With the grub screws i now get your point. During the dry fit it showed it indeed.
My plan for the final build is to start with the swingarms (without wheels on) before mounting the end stops and the four dampers. That way you should have enough rotational freedom to reach the grubs.
I would not loosen up 204 and 205.

If all that doesn’t work i think you can also take the floorplate of again?

[Tom OBrien]

I dont understand what the issue is with the m4x22 pins.
They are there to stop the wheels rotating independently and was an improvement made on this model vs previous PIII/ STUG III kits.

Not an issue per se, but a concern that the only connectors holding together the two wheel halves are two pins and not machine bolts (or machine screws with nuts if you prefer).

At this point, the only force keeping the two wheel halves from separating is the M4x8 CSK that retains the CPO142 hub washer (I just made up that term), which retains the entire wheel-bearing assembly on its axle. I would think that over time, the wheel halves might separate if you get pebbles and other small solid objects in the space between the two wheel halves.

Moreover, despite the fact that the tracks ride on the rubber wheels, if the rubber were to wear down just slightly, the track horns would touch the metal wheels in that separation space between the two wheel halves. Having assembled some track sections, I've observed that when the two wheel halves are fitted together (I'm not going to even think about pinning them at this point), the track horns are too wide to fit in that separation space. I might grind just enough metal off from the inside rims of the two wheel halves once they are assembled, giving the track horns enough space to fit in the eventuality they need to fit.

Having said all this, perhaps it's all moot when you consider the scale weight involved. In other words, if it's worked OK for previous models, then any suggestion of replacing the pins with machine bolts or screws would be a practice in over-engineering.

Anyone who knows me will tell you I'm a sucker for over-engineering.

cheers...