Feild Trials

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Roland Wallick
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Feild Trials

Post by Roland Wallick »

Well finally after to many years to count, Panzer #20 went on its feild trials today. It had been out in the back yard a couple times but we never crashed any brush, but today we loaded her up on the transport and went out in the woods.
Over all she did pretty well. I learned you have to tie everything down, and going up the ramp into the truck the turret popped when she crested the incline. I will have to do something to secure the turret other than gravity.
Had little or no trouble chewing up the leaves vines and small branches.

One problem I do have which I sort of already knew is the track on one side, at times wants to run up on the sprocket teeth. Im not sure it is just a tension problem. I read on another forum (cant remember where) that some one else talked about a track problem with the early Armoteck tanks.
I will try to retension the track again but if this problem persists and even if it does'nt I will look into spring loading the idler wheels. I dont like the idea of a tight track incase of ingesting rocks and branches, and I sure dont want to have to hold her hand as we go through the brush worrinig about what we may run over.
Over all it was an encouraging day.

Make me think we need a 1/6 Leopard so we can use a mine plow. :shock:
If your not living on the edge, your taking up to much space.

Pierluigi Patri
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Post by Pierluigi Patri »

Why don't you post some pictures about your run?
Pierluigi

Roland Wallick
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Post by Roland Wallick »

I didnt take any, for some reason, I had the camera in my pocket too.
Ill be sure to take some next time.
If your not living on the edge, your taking up to much space.

Allan Richards
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Post by Allan Richards »

Rolland,

I'm glad to hear that the Panzer went well on its first run, we don't hear much about these early models. Look at the Tiger thread by Glen Brookes as he has had the same problem with one of his Tiger tracks running over the sprocket and I have made some suggestions there which in principle will equally to the Panzer IV.

I think one has to be careful where the tank is driven and I have found woods not to be too good an area due to the branches and general debris getting caught up in the tracks. Gravel and areas with small stones are also not good. This said I have the Tiger which has two track horns per link and the bits get caught between the two horns and won't come out. Yesterday I took the tank to my local clay shooting ground and even managed to get a spent 12 gauge shell caught in the tracks. After breaking several links on various runs due to stones jamming the tracks I have done as you have suggested and have fitted spring tensioning to the rear idlers and touch wood no breakages since doing this.
Allan Richards

Joe Boylan
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Post by Joe Boylan »

Hi Roland & Allen - guess I missed the information on the spring tensioning to the rear idlers. Could you elaborate more on this? Please e-mail me.
JOE

Graham Ord
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SPRING TENSIONERS

Post by Graham Ord »

Hi Allen
I too would be interested in the rear axle modification, and of course any pictures would be appreciated.
Graham

Roland Wallick
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Post by Roland Wallick »

Hi Guys, I am starting o figure out the spring tension for the Panther, since thats the one I have on the bench. I think that one may be fairly simple. The Panzer4 Will be more complicated I fear but I will post any progress on them here.
Allen the junk in the tracks is not the problem, I have this problem on the lawn, even in the house, but only on one side. Now off to look for that Tiger thread.
If your not living on the edge, your taking up to much space.

Allan Richards
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Post by Allan Richards »

Below are some pictures of the general arrangement of the spring tensioners I have made.

Image
Image
Image

I hope it is fairly self explanatory. First I made the retainer to hold the cap head adjusting bolt in the rear hull plate. The thread in the brass insert in the Armortek adjusting arm is drilled as a clearance hole for the bolt. The steel cable is a push bile brake cable and the spring is from a cheap folding garden chair. Since taking these pictures I have moved the bowden cable anchor screw up into the brass insert to get more leverage as I was surprised at the pull on the tracks when turning on grass as it was orginally pulling the tensioner during turns.
Allan Richards

Roland Wallick
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Post by Roland Wallick »

Allen How well does it work? The spring does not look like it would be strong enough. I was thinking something like what you have, without the cable.
I have a hanging scale, like a fish scale that I was going to try to get a measurment with. Im thinking maybe in the 20 pound range,(for the spring) the track is a little heavy. I dont know how well I will be able to test it since I have no motors yet. I suppose I could tow it with my Panzer 4.
If your not living on the edge, your taking up to much space.

Graham Ord
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PANZER IV SPRINGS

Post by Graham Ord »

Hi all
My Panzer IV has leaf springs on the road wheels not torsion bars as the pictures show. Do you know if it suffers from the same track shedding problems. I had presumed you were putting a spring on the rear idler tensioner to maintain track tension. A bit confused!!!
Graham

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Post by Armortek »

Gentlemen

I have been reluctant to comment on this topic (spring tensioning) for fear of squashing new ideas and thoughts. However, the official technical advise from Armortek is that spring loaded idler tensioning is not a good idea. There is no problem with regular track shedding on any of these models that has been reported to us. Quite the opposite in fact. If you are suffering from track shedding look to the alignment of the various track and running gear parts and check that you have assembled everything correctly.

On any tracked vehicle with front sprocket drive, the risk of the track climbing the sprocket teeth and shedding is significantly increased if the rear idler is spring tensioned. I can understand that small stones could get jammed in the track and cause problems that a spring could relieve, but the reports from the overwhelming majority of users is that this is just not a regular issue.

If you must fit a spring. make sure that it is really very stiff and that it acts against a pre set dead stop. This will allow emergency tension relief only and ensure that the track is not excessively tensioned causing accelerated wear.

Mark
Armortek

Roland Wallick
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Post by Roland Wallick »

Good point to consider Mark on the limiter stop.

I know of a lot of people who spring their smaller scale tanks and they all swear by it. I do intend to drive mine through the sticks and the stones and the rocks and the bones.

I looked at some springs last night and my earlier guess of 20 pounds may be a bit much but it will take some trial and error to get it right.
If your not living on the edge, your taking up to much space.

Allan Richards
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Post by Allan Richards »

Rolland,

The spring on my system has almost a 10:1 mechanical advantage caused by the geometry on the Tiger idler axle adjustment, I would think that the tracks can pull in the region of 150-200lbs on the actual idler during a turn on a grippy surface. Also the spring holds the idler tension against the nut on the end of the bolt so it is against a hard stop, the idler does not float on the spring tension.

I have tried making the idler on one of my 1/16th scale tanks float on two springs and it has not been very successful as the force on the idler varies with manoeuvering and hence the track tension varies continually causing poor performance, especially in turns.

The tension in the spring on my Tiger is set such that the idler does not normally move, it only moves in extreme circumstances when something jams it the track, and it only really matters when something jams between the rear idler and the track. The dual track horns on the Tigers tracks trap small stones which doesn't matter untill the stones get to the idler which grabs them and jams them between the idler and track, this causes the track to over tension and snap. The motors are so powerful that they don't stop, the first you know of it is the track breaking. This has happened to me several times and I have broken about 10 links. With the spring fitted the idler now moves forward enough to prevent the track breaking and the stone then normally falls out.

I agree with Mark that this problem doesn't probably happen very frequently, but where I live in north Kent the ground is full of small stones ideally sized to get in the tracks. I also agree with Marks views on floating the tracks on spring tension, my system is more of a safety device than a tension device.

Sorry for the long message but I hope its useful.
Allan Richards

Roland Wallick
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Re: PANZER IV SPRINGS

Post by Roland Wallick »

Graham Ord wrote:Hi all
My Panzer IV has leaf springs on the road wheels not torsion bars as the pictures show. Do you know if it suffers from the same track shedding problems. I had presumed you were putting a spring on the rear idler tensioner to maintain track tension. A bit confused!!!
Graham I think the picture is of a Tiger, I have a Panther with a like setup.

The track Im haveing trouble with is on my Panzer4 the track on the right side likes to run up on the sprocket teeth. I have not checked the alighnment yet like Allen was talking about. When the track was new it did it on both sides, did not come off so I did not think alighnment I thought a mismatch between track and sprocket. Now one side seems to work well, maybe it streched? I have not thought any further than that yet. To tired after work. :cry:
If your not living on the edge, your taking up to much space.

Allan Richards
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Post by Allan Richards »

Roland,

Just a thought but if you can swap the sprockets and se if the other track starts to ride up. If it does it might be that the sprocket teeth need to be filed to releive them a bit.
Allan Richards

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