Leopard tank gun stabilisation.

[David Merritt]

Can the RC helicopter gyro stabilisation controller be used to provide automatic stabilisation to the main gun on the Leopard tank?
The gyro stabilisation controller controls the pitch angle on a helicopters tail rotor to provide stable flight and only allows the the input from the RC transmitter to move the pitch angle of the tail rotor to cause controlled rotation of the helicopter, still maintaining stabilisation.
This is what is required by a stabilisation system for the gun on the Leopard tank.
Any thoughts?

[Jerry Carducci]

It has been done

Tamiya sells a main gun stabilizer (works in concert with their electronics) for the 1/16 Leo II so I'm sure you can come up with something.

I know I've heard or read about someone who did this very thing on their larger scale model.

Jerry

[Adrian Harris]

Sadly it's a very different proposition between stabbing a 1/16 plastic gun barrel and three feet of aluminium.

I've done it with the M3 main gun but the tuning is very touchy.

Adrian

[John Clarke]

Gun elevation axis should be no problem with a modern gyro/servo electronics gun forward, though you'd have to limit gun depression which could wipe out the detailing on the rear deck should the gun depress rear pointing. (The Leo2 A4 has a raised rear end).
I believe Tamiya get round this problem with a feed back track around the turret ring following turret/gun position.
Tracking during traverse, is a different proposition and I'm open to idea's, maybe up scale Tamiya's feed back system with a set interface electronics' and motors.

[Gerhard Michel]

Hello,

a friend of mine uses a gun stabilization in his quarter scale Leo II (about 400 kg, turret about 80 kg). It is a factory modified solution of the gun stabi system TVC-GSU12 made by SGS in Germany.

[Jerry Carducci]

Sadly it's a very different proposition between stabbing a 1/16 plastic gun barrel and three feet of aluminium.

I've done it with the M3 main gun but the tuning is very touchy.

Adrian

Yes, I did understand the difference. I wasn't suggesting the 1/16 solution would be appropriate for the larger implementation.

I assume(d) that some attempt at a counterbalance would be the first priority. To keep whatever stabilizing method chosen from having to
fight a huge barrel flapping around.

I still have old (antique!) gyro stabilizers from the 1970s from Kavan and Sankyo; true motor driven things. the Kavan black box version always let you know when you started it- it sounded so cool! Having a gyro stabilizer in my Kavan Alouette was the only way I could fly it successfully...otherwise it was terrible.

Jerry

[David Merritt]

I have been looking into6 axis airplane gyro and stabiliser system and it appears that the can be remotely switched on and their mode changed from off to lock mode which will hold the current attitude of the airplane which is what is required to stabilise the gun.
The controller will have to be mounted within the turret and on to the gun mount to know the position and attitude of the gun.
The next problem would be to work out the interface with the Armortek system. Thus will have to wait until I have received the Leopard and the motion pack as it will be the first of their tanks that I have built.
Something to look forward to.

David

[David Merritt]

Has anyone heard off or had any dealings with 35rctank.com? They appear to specialise in providing RC controlled 1/16 and 1/35 tracked vehicles and providing control boards to convert static 1/16 and 1/35 scale tanks to RC.
One of these control boards in conjunction with other of their boards provides gun stabilisation along with automatic lifting of the gum when it passes over the rear hull. This stabilisation can be switched on/off via the RC system.
I have been in communication with them to try and understand if it would be possible to use this system to control a 1/6 scale model and what interfaces may be require as the system is designed to run on 6 volts where as we use 24 volts.

David Merritt

[Youngjae Bae]

Has anyone heard off or had any dealings with 35rctank.com? They appear to specialise in providing RC controlled 1/16 and 1/35 tracked vehicles and providing control boards to convert static 1/16 and 1/35 scale tanks to RC.
One of these control boards in conjunction with other of their boards provides gun stabilisation along with automatic lifting of the gum when it passes over the rear hull. This stabilisation can be switched on/off via the RC system.
I have been in communication with them to try and understand if it would be possible to use this system to control a 1/6 scale model and what interfaces may be require as the system is designed to run on 6 volts where as we use 24 volts.

David Merritt

I contacted them about 3 years ago and seriously considered purchasing the GSU they produce and applying it to my 1/6 scale chieftain. As a result, in the process of converting 24V to 6V, I gave up using it. After that, I tried to implement GSU using self-leveling system through PID control using Arduino, but I temporarily put it on hold until now due to limitations of linear actuator.
Then I noticed that the "Clark tk80spg2" or "TVC-GSU12" is a very good Controller for 1/6 scale or more models.
The problem is that the up and down control of the main gun eventually requires a strong servo system.
I'm going to install a GSU with "TVC-GSU12" at the beginning of next year because I am applying a strong servo motor to control the top and bottom of the main gun to my K2 produced by Off Topic.
And if that is successful, I will replace the main gun control system of my 1/6 scale chieftain with servo from linear motor and expand the main gun stabilizer.
I'm going to install Hitec's 'D845WP' as a servo for main gun controller this time.

Youngjae

[Youngjae Bae]

I checked that the main gun of my K2 tank (off-topic) that I completed this time is very well driven up and down with the servo (D845WP).
Therefore, I got a TVC-GSU-12 quote from SGS Electronics in Germany to apply GSU to my tank.

The price of the product is 251.6Euro including shipping fee to Korea.
This price is said to be excluding VAT.

The technical confirmation required by the manufacturer to apply this product is

1. The angle control of the main gun will be done with servo.

2. The drive of the turret is done with a motor and the position of the motor will be located on the turret, not the body.

Of course, I use servo to control the angle of the main gun, but since the position of the turret rotation motor is on the main body, not the turret, I will consider some changes and install it.

Sometimes I will share the installation process and test underground on off-topic.

Youngjae

[Andre Meylan]

Can the RC helicopter gyro stabilisation controller be used to provide automatic stabilisation to the main gun on the Leopard tank?
The gyro stabilisation controller controls the pitch angle on a helicopters tail rotor to provide stable flight and only allows the the input from the RC transmitter to move the pitch angle of the tail rotor to cause controlled rotation of the helicopter, still maintaining stabilisation.
This is what is required by a stabilisation system for the gun on the Leopard tank.
Any thoughts?

Hi David ... I have been flying RC helicopters for 20 years and yes, the gyro stabilisation will work perfectly for the gun I believe. I have not yet seen the mechanical solution ... if its done with a simple servo, then it will definitely work.

It's just a matter of programming the right channel direction and the sensibility. I would use an old Futaba GY401 or from the wing fraction you could go for a 1-channel gyro from PowerBox systems. They also work tremendously well.

Cheers, Andre

[David Merritt]

Thank Andre,

The Gyro looks like it would do the job, it would require 2 of them, one for each direction of movement, turret rotation and gun elevation.
I am currently in the process of building the Leo tank and it looks like the main problem I will have to overcome is the weight of the gun as the majority of this weight is on one side of the pivot point which will require a lot of torque to move the gun in elevation with any speed.
To overcome this there will be a need be an equivalent counter weight withing the turret, which causes its own problem within the turret space and the area below as this weight must not restrict the required elevation of the gun.

Hopefully these problems can be solved as the build progresses.

David

[Andre Meylan]

Thank Andre,

The Gyro looks like it would do the job, it would require 2 of them, one for each direction of movement, turret rotation and gun elevation.
I am currently in the process of building the Leo tank and it looks like the main problem I will have to overcome is the weight of the gun as the majority of this weight is on one side of the pivot point which will require a lot of torque to move the gun in elevation with any speed.
To overcome this there will be a need be an equivalent counter weight withing the turret, which causes its own problem within the turret space and the area below as this weight must not restrict the required elevation of the gun.

Hopefully these problems can be solved as the build progresses.

David

Hi David,
I am following your work with great interest as I intend to do the very same. Not sure about the turret rotation, but the gun stabilization is definitely on the menu.

Regards, Andre

[Andre Meylan]

Thank Andre,

The Gyro looks like it would do the job, it would require 2 of them, one for each direction of movement, turret rotation and gun elevation.
I am currently in the process of building the Leo tank and it looks like the main problem I will have to overcome is the weight of the gun as the majority of this weight is on one side of the pivot point which will require a lot of torque to move the gun in elevation with any speed.
To overcome this there will be a need be an equivalent counter weight withing the turret, which causes its own problem within the turret space and the area below as this weight must not restrict the required elevation of the gun.

Hopefully these problems can be solved as the build progresses.

David

Hi David,
I am following your work with great interest as I intend to do the very same. Not sure about the turret rotation, but the gun stabilization is definitely on the menu.

Regards, Andre

Hi David,

I have not yet been able to mount the turret but yes, there is definitely a weight contraint if there is no counterweight. I haven't seen anything so far in my kit and the option packs. The solution will be to make a gun as light as possible and that's what I intend to do. First, I have to check on the real diameters, front and back fiber glass cover of the main gun seems to be straight pipes.

Best regards, Andre

[David Merritt]

I have just done some quick calculations on the speed of elevation of the gun and approximate counterbalance weights.
The speed of the gun elevation with the actuator supplied is 5 seconds for full elevation movement of the actuator which is to slow for gun stabilisation.
I can locate an actuator that will reduce this time to 1.5 seconds but it will require a counterbalance weight of around 4kg at a centre of force 100mm from the pivot point of the gun. Appropriate size of the lead counterbalance is 70mm3.
Looking at the turret it should be possible to locate this within it, with some of the weight descending into the hull area. The gun recoil mechanism has yet to be supplied, so a better idea of the counterbalance location can assessed when the space requirements for the recoil unit has be identified.
I can locate a 12 wire slip ring of the same size as that supplied by Armortek and as there are two unused wires in the 8 wires in the supplied slip ring, I have a total of 6 wires free for the gun stabilisation.

David.