Details!

[Simon Peck]

Hello All
Can anyone tell me the correct internal colours for the Tiger I hull. I see on David Byrdens' site he shows off-white and red oxide, yet the Tank Museum has 131 as off-white and grey?
Also, does anyone have any good pictures of the later (mid production on) loaders periscope, particularly underneath the 'hood'. Doyle and Jentz show some kind of armoured 'plug' that holds the periscope housing itself, I was wondering if this was correct?
Cheers in advance,
Simon

[Garry Coomber]

The correct internal colour for a tiger is elfenbein which is a current colour that Volkswagen use, so you should be able to get it quit easily. Unfortunately if you use the colour code, today's version of that colour is not right. I spent ages in the paint shop looking through ral colour chips, and final fount it in current auto colour chips.

It is a creamy off white with a yellowish ting.

[Paul Morris]

Hi Simon.

Ford ivory from Halfords is a little too light but works well .... in my opinion.
Cheers Paul.

[Simon Peck]

Hi guys.
Thanks for your help, but my question isn't about the colour of the crew compartment which I know was Elfenbein. My question is what is the correct colour of the engine bay: red oxide as per David Byrdens site, or grey as per the tank museums restoration of 131?
Thank again!

[Garry Coomber]

After a lot of deliberation, looking at photographs and head scratching I went for panzer grey in the lower half of the hull, engine bay.

Hope that helps.

[mark lawson]

It all depends on what time frame you are basing the Tiger on, if you are building an early example then grey might be correct, if you are building a mid or late production version then it’s red oxide primer owing to the lack of paint, inside the crew fighting compartment was a creamy white but there was a short period were tanks were painted in red oxide this was later changed and creamy white applied again the underside of hatches should be the same colour as the base coat so dunkelgelb or dunkelgrau for very early Tigers.
Loaders periscope had the same fitments are the driver/radio operators hatches this http://forum.warthunder.com/uploads/mon ... 513418.jpg is a Panther which was also the same.

[Simon Peck]

Hi Mark
Sorry for my slow reply. Yes, thanks for the info. I see now that the engine compartment was two different colours depending when the Tiger was manufactured. Since mine is a mid production, then I think the engine bay will be red oxide.
As for the loaders periscope, I am still looking for a photo under one of the surviving Tigers in France or Russia, as I think the mid and late production had the same periscope housing. It would seem from the book by Jentz and Doyle (Germany's Tiger Tanks - D.W. to Tiger I, page 126) and the enclosed drawing that there was an 'insert' into which the periscope fitted, and the insert was welded into the the roof proper, with the armoured 'hood' welded over the entire assembly?
Thanks again,
Simon

[mark lawson]

Simon the loaders periscope was first fitted to early Tigers only the shape of the armoured cover changed slightly this was always welded into position, study the picture that I posted a link to although this is from a Panther the periscope mount is exactly the same as a Tiger this was bolted into position, the periscope was a two piece affair and if you look at the picture you will notice 2 wing nuts these would be slackened which would allow the bolts to be folded out the retaining claws, the bottom half of the periscope mounting could then be folded allowing the removal of either half or both parts of the periscope.

[Simon Peck]

Hi Mark.
Thanks for the reply. I've studied your Panther picture. I agree that it wouldn't make a lot of sense to do things so very differently between two different tank types, but without a picture of the Tiger's periscope I can't be sure, especially when what seems to held as the bible by Jentz and Doyle would suggest there was some kind of a 'plug' in the roof below the armoured hood. Even in your Panther pic there is a 'lip' in the roof around the periscope housing suggesting some sort of 'plug', (as I read it, as I can't believe the entire roof would be milled to achieve this 'lip'?
Simon

[Per Sonnervik]

Hi Simon,

Far from being a Tiger I expert but I do have some material, also regarding the loader´s periscope mount. Now if one works from original turret drawings there are two versions on the Tiger I turret with the new commander´s hatch (also note the two different persicopes in each version);

*version 1




*version 2




The Tiger I in Saumur (produced in May 1944) has version 1 as seen in these photos;









The photo below clearly shows the welded plug insert below the cover (missing here) of the loader´s periscope;




Both Saumur´s Tiger I and the Tiger´s roof plate in the photo above have a single 40 mm bent plate and with Pilzen (produced sometime between March - May 1944). Now, in late May 1944 the roof was made in two plates instead of the single bent - perhaps this is when they mounted version 2. I´ve never seen version 2 in a Tiger I perhaps it´s in the Vimoutier´s Tiger I which has two roof plates but I´m speculating here.

I hope it´s of some help.

/Per

[Simon Peck]

Hi Per
Superb, thanks ever so! This is exactly what I was looking for. Very interesting as to why they had two different variants of the same thing? Were there two different manufacturers, or did they sub contract? I wonder what design characteristic determined which type of periscope plug they went for, if any? I think your speculation is the best guess!
My Tiger I will be a 'mid' production, so I guess the version 1 as per Jentz and Doyle is the way to go.
Thanks for taking the time to put together this info.
Simon

[Per Sonnervik]

You´re welcome, Simon.

To finish things off I found a photo of Vimoutier´s loader´s periscope cover (my friend Rob again);




and it clearly shows the welded plug again. I´m beginning to think version 2 was never made before production of the Tiger I ceased. The drawing is also not included in Jentz and Doyle´s Tiger I book - maybe because they never found evidence of it being mounted on a Tiger I.

/Per

[mark lawson]

The Panther fitting is version 2 on your drawings, the panther in the pictures is an A model.

Per it is my understanding that Jentz only used information which could be found in the Bundesarchive but then Jentz also never mentioned the forward opening hatch found on a small number of Mid Tiger I

[Kent Wiik]

Hi Simon, Mark and Per,

Interesting discussion.

In the Jenz/Doyle book "Germany's Tiger Tanks" the both type of periscope versions is shown with the same drawings as Per has posted but without the text.

In page 108 the type Per call version 2 it is said:
"A single Winkelspiegel periscope for the loader was installed facing forward in the turret roof (starting with Turm Nr.184 in March 1943)".

In page 126 the type Per call version 1 it is said:
"The mounting for the loader's periscope was redesigned to include a wider armor cover (starting with Turm Nr.392 in July 1943)".

In July 1943 the procuction of the Mid version Tiger1 begun and its new type of cupola with the same periscopes as version 1. Maybe the reason for the change was so only 2 typer of spare periscops was needed to be stored in the turret (loader/cupola + the turret side ones) Instead of 3 types if the version 2 was keept? Just my 10 cents....

So, the version 2 was indeed installed in 208 turrets, all Early type Tiger1, and non of them has survived today.
Simon, your Mid shall have the version 1 as all Mid and Late had them exept for a small number of mixed Mid/Late hull with Early turrets seen late in war.

Kind regards
Kent

[Kent Wiik]

Sorry dubble post