CENTURION FITTINGS

[neil pudney]

I have a fair amount of centurion reference books and photos to help me build the armortek centurion, i am going to model mine on a 1960s British version and have bought an AFV club 1/35 kit that they produce with the Nato Version to help me along the way. I also have the great Tamiya Kit of the Centurion in larger 1/25 scale albeit a mk3.
Can anyone tell me what the large reel mounted on the rear of the turret was actually used for and its construction. I know its for cable but what exactly. I have managed to get hold of a 1/6 telephone handset from an old toy figure to use for the infantry telephone and will modify the armortek box on the rear eventually. Was this cable drum connected or used in this telephone mode? Also i have managed to get hold of a beautiful metal model 19 1/6 browning .30 cal machine gun with full working parts for mounting on the turret, complete with ammo belt with individual brass casings and side mounting ammo can etc but can only find a 1917 mount anywhere on the internet, which will fit the gun ok but will it look totally wrong?
i would like to use this mount as its superb quality, i couldn't make one like it myself thats for sure !
Does anyone know if the browning would be ok on this mount or will i have to go the home made route and make a later mount up from scrap etc.
Any help gladly appreciated.

[Stephen White]

Hi, Neil

The cable reel on the turret contained a nominal 1000m of a thin two pair cable known universally as "Don 10". It was used to provide a link to the tank turret when a crewman was dismounted eg a local guard or an observation post. A telephone handset was provided which could be attached to the end of the cable using two terminals. The cable was brilliant for tying up things like shelters ("bashas") or cam nets. So there was rarely anything like the full length on it,

The infantry/tank telephone at the back was as its name suggests intended to be used by dismounted infantry to communicate with the crew. It was possibly one of the most useless devices ever invented. It rarely worked, being subject to all the beating of the back of the tank and even if it did, no self respecting infantryman with any sense of self-preservation went anywhere near the back of a tank which could reverse at high speed without warning. Even in Vietnam, where infantry and tanks worked as closely together as anywhere, the tanks used an AN/PRC 25 manpack radio on the top of the turret to communicate. I don't remember it being taught on any of the courses I did at the RAC Centre and in 25 odd years never had anyone brave enough to use it. One of those things that probably seemed a good idea at the time but when the infantry support tank concept gave way to the main battle tank, the need disappeared.

You can find some detailed photos of that and the .30 cal commander's MG mount on the MCVA site. I've provided a link on one of my posts (either the build log or the Cent references). Look for Paul Scott's restoration of ARN 169091.

The M1917 Browning was the dismounted infantry version, the tank commander's MG was the M1919 version. Although there are only minor differences in the weapon, the mounts were different. I don't know of a vehicle mount available in 1/6th but why don't you have a go? If you don't fancy trying it in metal, you could always use styrene. The Plastruct range of stock is available in most model shops. I've not yet looked at the mount in detal but I"m certainly going to have a go. For reference, try:

http://www.browningmgs.com

Regards

Stephen

[neil pudney]

hi stephen,thanks for letting me know about the cable drum , i was fairly sure that was what it was for but you have really helped me understand the full workings of it.
As for the browning mount i know looking at tanks on the internet that the browning 1919 type mount was fairly basic, there does seem to be some slight variations on different tanks i have looked at so may go for the 'build my own' mount option.
I have had to wait some time to start building my centurion and have been gathering all the required bits and pieces ready for the build but made a start today on the lower hull and also started painting and weathering the track links and pins.That will keep me busy for a while yet !
I am waiting for slightly warmer weather to do more but already have got the building bug.

thanks again neil

[Fabrice Le Roux]

Neil,

I have some photos and detailed measurements of the phonebox on the back of the Bovy AVRE105 , but the Aussie item was rotated 90 degrees and mounted on the port side of the LR armoured fuel.

As Stephen says, not popular with end users.

cheers Fabrice

[Kevin Hunter]

Hi Neil
I too have a metal 1/6 M1919 - the Henry Kano model. Is yours the same or did you find a different gem out there? I can't hang the ammo box off the gun though, besides which I thought it attached to the mount anyway?
I'm struggling to find good close up photographs of a Centurion turret mounted M1919, so not sure about the mount. A lot of internet references I have read suggest that the M1917A1 cradle was often used in conjunction with our lghter air cooled Browning MG. I was looking for an exploded parts diagram with a view to trying to make one, but I see Armorpax do a metal kit version which would save the work.
Kevin

[neil pudney]

hi kevin, yes its the same gun model, the mount is a problem and i have scoured the web for decent close ups and exactly how to fit etc. I am still working on that, i did buy another browning, the aerlier 1917 model with a nice mount which allows the ammo can to clip on the left side etc but of course it isnt a perfect match if you want to be 100% accurate. It looks like i will end up either making a mount from scratch or use the earlier mount which although not perfect for a true scale fit it looks superb and most people would never know. It depends how far into true scale that you want to go. With my skill level being pretty average i will not worry too much about how others look at it, if i like the look of it i will be happy!
regards,neil