Centurion #18

[Kevin Hunter]

My beast has arrived here in Guernsey and I am now the proud owner of my first Armortek kit.

At the moment I'm still not decided on exactly what to model, although it could end up as mid 60's BAOR, possibly 1st Royal Dragoons. The Royals amalgamated in 1969 with my Dads regiment (Royal Horse Guards, "The Blues") to form the Blues & Royals. Sadly the Blues didn't have Cents and went straight to Chieftains, to which the Royals had converted by the time of the amalgamation. I could cheat and model the Cent as RHG, but it wouldn't be right, so may bite the bullet and go with Royals for now. Could we have a Chieftain next please Armortek?

Research is ongoing as to Mks used by the Royals and I have joined a couple of Cavalry forums to chat with them that know. It may be that I have to consider a Mk 6. However I'm not an accomplished modeller like so many members here are, so depending on the challenges it might stay as a straight 5-2.

Watch this space. I'm reading all other Cent blogs with great interest and hope to learn lots along the way.

Kevin

[Kevin Hunter]

Waiting for lifting trolley to arrive - one of the occupational hazards of island life! Meanwhile have borrowed the dining room table to try dry fitting parts and have hit my first snag

The forward fixing holes in the main deck plate don't line up with the tapped holes in the front stretcher bar. The difference is such that reversing the stretcher back to front makes no difference. Anyone else had this issue?

Presumably solution is straightforward.... Fill existing stretcher holes and re-drill / tap to suit holes in the deck plate? Thought I had better check first.

While I'm here, also presume fixings at rear of deck plate (ie to mid stretcher) should be csk head and not cap per the manual?

Cheers

Kevin

[neil pudney]

Hi kevin, reading your article is helpful to me and im sure many others as i'm just about to dry fit parts now xmas is over i can get on with some building and etch priming on my centurion. All i have done so far due to family committments over xmas is about half the tracks !
I will certainly take note of your comments on this part, thanks for letting us all know. I haven't seen any other comments from other builders on this issue you have perhaps they havent had the same problem? I would think if the part is wrongly drilled and tapped then perhaps armortek will make new parts and ship out to all buyers as not everyone has the know how to drill and tap parts correctly. I know many on the forum are expert builders and trained engineers, but myself i am hoping to just build the kit out of the box with parts hopefully all fitting correctly which they should considering the price of the kits.
Looking forward to any feedback from other builders or armortek, obviously mark has done the prototype build so will have already noticed this if a general error.
regards,neil

[Stephen White]

Kevin, Neil

I've just checked mine and the parts line up perfectly, as I suspected. You haven't said whether your issue is in the fore and aft plane or laterally.

Regards.

Stephen

[Kevin Hunter]

Hi Stephen
Sorry about that - problem is lateral. The holes in the 2 parts are aligned fore and aft but the holes in the stretcher are just under the edge of the deck holes. I reversed the stretcher end for end and the problem was same, just displaced to the opposite edges of the deck holes.
Hope you can visualise from the description as not sure it will photograph clearly. I'll try tomorrow though......
Kevin

[Armortek]

Hi Kevin

We can replace the stretcher for you, sounds like yours is not quite correct.

Mark

[Kevin Hunter]

As promised.....

Sorry about the image quality - I reduced the resolution from 3.8mb for sake of forum server space but essentially you should see that the 4 holes are not central on the stretcher. The hole on the outside left is approx 12mm from the side panel, that on the right is about 7mm.

Hopefully you can make out the "half moon" of the drilled hole beneath the deck plate. As previously mentioned, reversing the stretcher moves this to the opposite side. The deck plate is square on the mid stretcher,those holes line up, and the gap between it and the side plates is equal both sides. Presume the gap is "normal" or should it be a snug fit?

Kevin

[Kevin Hunter]

Hi Mark - my latest post crossed with yours. Trust you can now see what I mean.
Appreciate the offer - although the corrective measures I mentioned earlier are just about within my capabilities. If you can stick one in a jiffy bag it will save me the hassle though? See what you think when you've seen the pics.
Regards
Kevin

[Armortek]

Hi Kevin

I think you need a replacement!. Will send it out straight away.

Mark

[neil pudney]

hi kevin, you certainly have got a faulty part there, i got on with my hull build this morning and all holes line up perfectly with pin point precision.Glad you gave us the info though as it made me double or triple check everything as i built the hull.
best wishes,neil

[Kevin Hunter]

Tool little activity here for too long.......
Firstly, belated public thanks to Mark & Gill for resolving the issue with the front stretcher - new one fits perfectly.
I'm still unsure of what version I want to build. Frankly Im having a b*gger of a job getting info from the Household Cavalry museum, who seem to have lost 2 cheques required to do the research for me. Being in Guernsey I'm at a disadvantage as I cant just pop to Windsor (or Bovvy for that matter) and Im finding this very frustrating. I'm not a skilled modeller but i would be nice to get the details / info Im after rather than just go "generic". I persevere....
Meantime, etch priming like it's going out of fashion. Have secured use of a large disused store for a few months so I can get spraying regardless of weather and beginning to make some progress - having started feels good, but I'm having the odd issue.
For example - where the "floor" panel meets the lower front hull plate. Stephen W (for one) milled a rebate in the front plate to take the floor panel. I thought this was a part of his magnificent detailing but now seems either the front plate or the floor have to give in order to fit together. Am I right, or have I got something wrong?
My second naive question concerns painting, specifically the various brass bushes in the main bogies and return roller constructions. Im not aware that brass is as prone to corrosion as other metals so do these bushes need painting? Should they be left bare to do their job as bearings / bushes? The ones inside the return roller assemblies are invisible anyway, but those on the bogies are partially visible.
I'd be grateful for some shared wisdom please guys (be gentle with me!).
Thanks
Kevin

[Stephen White]

Kevin

I'm sorry the HCav Museum is not producing the goods. Have you thought of putting a post of one of the model sites? I'd recommend Missing Lynx:

http://www.missing-lynx.com/dg.htm

If you register, you can post on the Modern Discussion Forum and I'm sure a lot of the knowledgable people on there will respond with good info.

If you look on page 3 of my Cent blog, I've put up some photos of the toe plate fitting to the bottom plate and the milled rebate. You should be able to slide the toe plate between the front face of the bottom panel and the hull sides. There will be a small gap on either side where Mark has folded the sides but it's easily filled.

I'd avoid any paint on the bushes. I do prime the bush seats with a very thin spray but you need to make sure the build up of paint doesn't prevent the bush sitting fully home. The main target for corrosion proofing should be the mild steel pieces. As long as one surface is primed, you won't get dissimilar metals corrosion. I probably go overboard in priming with two very thin coats but I use acrylic base colour and it helps to have a good keying surface.

Hope this helps. Enjoy your build and good luck with the research. It can be frustrating and rewarding in equal measure.

Stephen

Stephen

[Kevin Hunter]

Thanks for your input Stephen - have seen your pics as have been following your build closely and with great interest. I dont have a mill but have several friends in our local engineering club who I know will assist in doctoring the front panel so that it all comes together snugly.
As for the painting I guess it largely comes down to common sense. I have been liberal with the etch primer on the panels, but more sparing on axles etc where spacing may become more critical. Obviously I won't bother with any additional paint layers where components are buried - in roller housings for example.
I'll try Missing Lynx, thankyou, and see what I can turn up. Mind you I have also blagged my way onto 3 Cavalry forums (I have a family connection but never actually served)with little success. No offence to the many old soldiers I chat with but it seems time does dull the memory! I'll keep digging, and persevere with Windsor - it's masochistic fun!
Keep up your own excellent and inspirational work
Kevin

[Armortek]

Hello Kevin

There is no requirement to do any milling around the joint between the lower front plate and the floor. The edges do overlap. The floor projects forward and the lower front plate sits down on top of it.

All items such as axles, shafts bushes and bearings should not be painted at all. If you paint the locating bores that the bearings and bushes fit into, the bond retaining them will be limited to the adhesive strength of the paint, so this should also be avoided. Leave them all bare metal for best results.

Finally, etch primer does not etch if applied liberally. All the acid evaporates off with the solvent. It should be applied as one very, very thin layer, that way the acid eats into the surface and gets a good firm bond. You should still be able to see through it after it is applied. After this you can apply normal primers and undercoats depending on your preferred paint system.

Hope this helps
Mark

[Kevin Hunter]

Good morning Mark, and many thanks for the advice.
One of the reasons I was particularly concerned about painting steel axles etc is because I live in a fairly high salt environment. Nowhere here is much more than a mile from the sea which is obviously lovely but does increase potential for corrosion. I've read in the forum that you don't advocate packing gear housings and presumably roller housings with grease (and i understand the abrasion reasons) but how do I keep the dreaded rust off my unpainted axles?
Kevin