Panther loosing its tracks

[Marcel de Groene]

Hi guys,

Finally had the opportunity to drive my Panther at holy grounds. Same area in Holland were stiff fighting has been going on in the final year off the war. I encountered however problems with the track. I keep losing my right track. Track tension is correct but in slow turning corners the track comes of at the Idler wheel.(right side) I noticed there is a lot of clearing between Gear Case(item CH0208) and the Idler shaft(item CH0211). In other words, I can move the Idler Wheel mm's to the left and right. Seems to me that the Gear Case is bigger than the Idler shaft. I already noticed this spacing during building. Does any of you Panther builders have encountered the same? Have tried within my capabilities to find a way around this problem, but don't have the tools to do so.

Armortek is notified of this problem and has offered to have a look at it(great service as always) and fix the problem, but I was wondering if any of you have had similar problems and has an easy fix at hand.

Regards,

Marcel

[Tim Bowman]

Hi Marcel,

I have had the exact same experience with the same side (right track working it's way off the idler wheel). I've tried more tension less tension with little success. I attempted to space the idler out 2-3mm further from the hulI but have had the same results. I adjusted the tension one more time just last night but I am traveling today and won't be able to try it out till Monday.

Yes, my idler has the same movement side to side you describe.

I figured it's just me. I'm sorry I have no easy fix yet. I look forward to hearing what the solution is.

Kind regards

Tim

[Marcel de Groene]

Hi Tim,

Just like you I thought I was the only one(Armortek didn't had complains either) I'm looking now to let someone make a new Gear Case (out of steel) and make it tight fit. Also make it 1 mm wider to have the Idler come out more and get it in line woth the road wheels. Will have it made 1 mm smaller on the inside so I don't have to resolve any problems that might occur with the track tension system. Hope that we get more response on this problem.

Regards,

Marcel

[Marcel de Groene]

Tim,

Had another look at your Panther today. Really awesome. I will try to post some new pics on my Panther soon.

can you send me some detailed pics of your driver/radio operator hatches? Still haven't found detailed pics on the net yet.

Regards,

Marcel

[leesellars]

Hello Marcel

Dave Dibbs atArmorpax is doing the detailed panther hatches.They will be ready next year.There is a posting in the craftmans market for them.

lee

[Tim Bowman]

Hi Marcel,

I hope you had a great Christmas! I had the chance, FINALLY, to run the Panther through it's normal paces and the track stayed on the idler just fine. So far so good.

The only other bug I need to work out is that the same track seems to be skipping on the drive sprocket with a loud "clack clack clack" every now and again.

Happy New Year!

Tim

[leesellars]

Hello Tim

Try Takeing a track link out.I think it says fit 94 links on each sides and i think ive got 89 on mine.The Tracks are not supossed to lye like it does on the real one.To get the right tention ive got mine so it comes off the idler onto the 2 back wheels and them it starts to climb onto the sprocket. The Track should never jump.

Lee

[Marcel de Groene]

Hi Tim, Lee,

Yes, I had a wonderful Christmas. I will try to take a link out and see what happens. Wil wait however till the weather becomes nicer. It's freezing cold now and if I run into trouble in the outfield I like to fix things without my fingers freezing to the Panther(gives such a mess).

Anyway, I will see to have someone make a few new parts to get rid of the spacing.

Lee, I have seen the previews of Daves work. Looks very good and will probably move over to Holland

[Tim Bowman]

Hi Lee,

Thank you for the tension tip. I'll remove a link as well. By the way, Your Panther looks SUPER! Great detailing and I really like the large dot/spotty camo on the rear.

Marcel,

Yes, freezing fingers are not good. Stay warm

[David Ward]

Hello Tim

You may have already checked this, but on a panther I worked on there was an intermittent clacking and this was caused by the track hitting the bolts holding the suspension stops fore and aft.

David

[Tim Bowman]

David

Thank you very much for your post. I have not checked that while running but from removing and re-mounting the tracks I do recall (now that you mentioned it) that it does make contact with the forward stop just as you said. When running it is just as you described, intermittent.

It sounds like once I get it tensioned properly the track will run clear of the stop.

Thanks again, I appreciate it

Tim

[David Ward]

Tim

If that is the problem, I think that what ever you do with the tension the track will still hit the stops since the track on the top run slaps up and down especially at speed and over bumpy ground. In the end I had to alter the bracket.

David

[Robert E Morey]

Marcel, Tim, and others,
I was installing the rear idler shafts in my Panther, and I realized something that Marcel touched on in the beginning of this post. That is there is an alarming amount of clearance between the rear idler shaft and the brass idler bearing. I measured .020" (0.5mm) between shaft and bearing on my parts. This in my opinion is way too much gap, and could be a contributing source of the track shedding. This amount of clearance could potentially translate into 1-2mm of movement at the idler wheel edge when the track is under extreme tension (i.e. during a turn).

A smooth running track (or conveyor belt) depends on the drive wheel and idler wheel being perfectly parallel with each other and aligned side to side. As you increase the tension in the track, the force from the track will try and make the excess gap (between idler shaft and idler bearing) as big as possible - basically pulling the idler wheel toward the front of the tank - and no longer parallel with the drive wheel. Since the idler is no longer parallel the oncoming track teeth will attempt to "climb" over the tilted idler wheel. Bingo, now you have a shedding track.

The internal track tensioning screw and mechanism may take up (reduce) some of this clearance problem. But I think something needs to be done to reduce the excess clearance at the source - the shaft and idler bearing -reducing the clearance between these two parts cannot hurt anything. The idler shaft within the bearing should be a very snug fit, with just enough clearance (.005"or so) to allow the idler shaft to rotate, but with very little front to back play.

Short of remaking the idler bearing, I came up with an idea. I just happened to have some .008" (.20mm) tin sheet in my shop. Brass would be better, but tin is a fair bearing surface as well. I cut a piece slightly less than the width of the idler bearing and about 2.3" (58.4mm) long. Then roll it into a tube and slip it onto the idler shaft. Slide the shaft and shim into the bearing. It should now be a nice snug fit. It doesn't have to glued in or anything as it is just "taking up space". Voila, very little front to back play and a good snug fit.

Time will tell if this "shim" is a fix or not, but the fit of the idler shaft to the idler bearing is a lot better with the shim, and definately cannot hurt the performance of the track under tension.

One final thing, it wouldn't hurt to put a little grease on the exposed parts (non-painted) steel idler shaft, or completly paint the idler shaft to prevent rust. The shim is now the bearing surface, so the idler shaft can be completely painted..

If you have the material its an easy thing to make and install the shims. You guys may want to try this out on your Panther tanks to see if it helps,
-Bob

[Tim Bowman]

David,

Thanks, I'll check it after the track is tensioned as well.

Bob,

Excellent and simple solution to eliminate the play in the shaft. You're correct, it certainly can't hurt. I did run my Panther some more today at high speed and a lot of turns, both on pavement and grass, and the track remained in place. I will add the shims anyhow.

Thanks Bob

[Marcel de Groene]

Hello Bob,

This looks like a perfect solution. Thanks for the clear explanation on the problem(I had to do it with the English I have at hand ). I'm not sure if I will manage to get a track piece out. I have 84 track pieces in at the moment and I believe that's the minimum needed. I will try anyway.

Bob or someone following this topic: can you help me to the materials needed for the job, or put me in the right direction(prefered location somewere in Holland)

Regards,

Marcel

PS, wonder if these parts will be looked over by Armortek during the production run of the long awaited Jagdpanther