I've been looking at the latest photos on Roland Mann's Gallery, and I'm astonished at the level of detail he is putting into his Tiger. The latest shots show attention to issues I haven't seen anywhere else. Fantastic!
I have one question. Roland, it's apparent that you devised a way to set the rear engine grills flush with the hull sides, as of course they should be. I too have done this, but I can see that you chose some entirely different way to accomplish this. Since I'll be starting on the late Tiger soon, I'd dearly like to learn your method, as frankly, I don't want to have to repeat all the modifications I needed to do if there's a better method out there. Would you mind enlightening me, and the other Armortek Tiger modelers out here?
If you choose to, you can e-mail me at dmpinkerton2002@yahoo.com
Thanks,
Question for Roland Mann
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Doug Pinkerton
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:25 pm
- Location: Charleston, SC
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Doug Pinkerton
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:25 pm
- Location: Charleston, SC
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Roland Mann
- Posts: 174
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:45 pm
- Location: Stavenow, Germany
- Been liked: 19 times
Hi Doug,
thank you for your nice comments on my work. I was away for more than one week at a business trip. Now back I will be pleased to answer
all questions. Probably I should put more photos in the gallery showing
the rear deck lowering.
Here the details in figures as a first info : I made a complete new deck from 4 mm aluminium. It is a two part business. The rear deck is lowered 3 mm to take the engine lid and grills. The rear is 50 mm overlapping the front part of the deck and bolted together. In the overlapping area the front part of the deck is from 4 to 3 mm thickness reduced to receive the step of only 3 mm at the top. This step allowes to use a 3 mm engine lid and lowering the grills 3 mm as well. The step contour ( shape ) is following the parting lines for the grills and the engine lid.
Hope this will help to get a first impression of the work to do. I will be happy to help. Just let me know.
Best regards Roland
thank you for your nice comments on my work. I was away for more than one week at a business trip. Now back I will be pleased to answer
all questions. Probably I should put more photos in the gallery showing
the rear deck lowering.
Here the details in figures as a first info : I made a complete new deck from 4 mm aluminium. It is a two part business. The rear deck is lowered 3 mm to take the engine lid and grills. The rear is 50 mm overlapping the front part of the deck and bolted together. In the overlapping area the front part of the deck is from 4 to 3 mm thickness reduced to receive the step of only 3 mm at the top. This step allowes to use a 3 mm engine lid and lowering the grills 3 mm as well. The step contour ( shape ) is following the parting lines for the grills and the engine lid.
Hope this will help to get a first impression of the work to do. I will be happy to help. Just let me know.
Best regards Roland
Der Weg ist das Ziel.
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Doug Pinkerton
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:25 pm
- Location: Charleston, SC
Roland,
I had to reread your reply about 10 times before I was finally able to grasp what you were saying, and now I think I understand.
Now I have another question:
What if anything did you do to account for the overscale thickness of the rear armorplate?
I cut the top deck in two, used Armortek's rear deck support beam with some building up to bolt to the front edge of the rear, lowered portion of the deck and still support the rear edge of the forward section of the deck. I had a shelf milled into the rear armorplate (see my gallery archive photos) to get the proper scale thickness of that plate, and Pete Fertl supplied a spacer/support beam for the front of the whole two-piece deck assembly so it could be properly relocated 3-4 mm farther aft, resting on the rear armorplate shelf. Of course this necessitated lots of other modifications, but it worked out satisfactorily, at least from a visual standpoint....
Please do publish more detailed photos of your assembly. You're the engineer... I'm the cobbler.
I had to reread your reply about 10 times before I was finally able to grasp what you were saying, and now I think I understand.
Now I have another question:
What if anything did you do to account for the overscale thickness of the rear armorplate?
I cut the top deck in two, used Armortek's rear deck support beam with some building up to bolt to the front edge of the rear, lowered portion of the deck and still support the rear edge of the forward section of the deck. I had a shelf milled into the rear armorplate (see my gallery archive photos) to get the proper scale thickness of that plate, and Pete Fertl supplied a spacer/support beam for the front of the whole two-piece deck assembly so it could be properly relocated 3-4 mm farther aft, resting on the rear armorplate shelf. Of course this necessitated lots of other modifications, but it worked out satisfactorily, at least from a visual standpoint....
Please do publish more detailed photos of your assembly. You're the engineer... I'm the cobbler.
Doug
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Roland Mann
- Posts: 174
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:45 pm
- Location: Stavenow, Germany
- Been liked: 19 times
Hi Doug,
your solution for lowering the rear sounds more difficult to me than mine. However, you are right in saying it shoult look real from an outer visual point of view.
Now I just uploaded some photos in my gallery showing the results more than how to get to. ( I was lazy in putting everthing apart since it fits well at this moment. And there are about 20 square head bolts to be removed. ) Probably those photos will give you an idea of my way doing it.
The difficulty with my solution is the use of a 4 mm front deck. Putting the rear just underneath will create a step of 4 mm, while only 3 mm was requested. So this overlapping area had to be reduced in thickness by 1 mm on a mill just to get the requested 3 mm step. A supporting frame
( beam ) underneath the overlapping area was not needed since the two parts ( front and rear deck ) formed a total thickness of 7 mm, bolted together by 7 countersunk bolts M3. Finally an aluminium rivet of 4 mm
on each outer wing make a very solid construction.
When ever I feel strengh is not enough after fitting the turret, I may put an aluminium bar underneath to cope with the bending forces.
Sorry for my complicated English. It is a lack of words, showing the missing exercise. Hope it will be clearer this time together with the aid of my photos.
Roland
your solution for lowering the rear sounds more difficult to me than mine. However, you are right in saying it shoult look real from an outer visual point of view.
Now I just uploaded some photos in my gallery showing the results more than how to get to. ( I was lazy in putting everthing apart since it fits well at this moment. And there are about 20 square head bolts to be removed. ) Probably those photos will give you an idea of my way doing it.
The difficulty with my solution is the use of a 4 mm front deck. Putting the rear just underneath will create a step of 4 mm, while only 3 mm was requested. So this overlapping area had to be reduced in thickness by 1 mm on a mill just to get the requested 3 mm step. A supporting frame
( beam ) underneath the overlapping area was not needed since the two parts ( front and rear deck ) formed a total thickness of 7 mm, bolted together by 7 countersunk bolts M3. Finally an aluminium rivet of 4 mm
on each outer wing make a very solid construction.
When ever I feel strengh is not enough after fitting the turret, I may put an aluminium bar underneath to cope with the bending forces.
Sorry for my complicated English. It is a lack of words, showing the missing exercise. Hope it will be clearer this time together with the aid of my photos.
Roland
Der Weg ist das Ziel.
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Dale jordan
- Posts: 1456
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Nice photos of your rear deck Roland . I too have replaced my steel deck for alloy plus my turret roof as well , It's so much better . No rust problems , every time you drill though the deck no problems with small filling droping inside rusting all over you paint work . I see you have use brass countersunks bolts like me to hold down your Mike stannard tools I found the steel screws did not work that well . Your tiger is one of the best I have seen so far Roland. Dale.
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Doug Pinkerton
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:25 pm
- Location: Charleston, SC
Roland, I certainly was not critiquing your English! Your writing is just fine. You are correct that it is much easier to understand explanations of this nature with accompanying pictures, and now that I have seen your new gallery shots, I understand much better. The only problems I have are my lack of expertise and tools necessary to replace the Armortek deck with another, with the turret opening and all. Plus, I still think that the rear armorplate needs to be thinned, at least on the top edge, for the right visual dimension there.
Thanks for posting the explanation and photos. I've at least got another solution to consider, if I can get some help with the cutting and machining necessary.
Your tank looks magnificent so far. You seem to be at the head of the class in finishing details, and you're not even done yet....
Best regards,
Thanks for posting the explanation and photos. I've at least got another solution to consider, if I can get some help with the cutting and machining necessary.
Your tank looks magnificent so far. You seem to be at the head of the class in finishing details, and you're not even done yet....
Best regards,
Doug
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Tim Bowman
- Posts: 1762
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- Location: Northern California
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Roland,
To repeat what everyone else has already said, your work is excellent and detailing is outstanding. I am doing a similar new aluminum deck and deck plates for my Panther. Yours is great inspiration for me and super reference when I get around to my late Tiger.
Very nice looking Tiger. I hope to see more progress pictures of your work.
Kind Regards
Tim
To repeat what everyone else has already said, your work is excellent and detailing is outstanding. I am doing a similar new aluminum deck and deck plates for my Panther. Yours is great inspiration for me and super reference when I get around to my late Tiger.
Very nice looking Tiger. I hope to see more progress pictures of your work.
Kind Regards
Tim
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Roland Mann
- Posts: 174
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:45 pm
- Location: Stavenow, Germany
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Hi Tim, Doug and Dale,
thank you again for your frienly words on my Tiger 1. So fare I have used from Mike Stannard only the wing nuts recutted to M2 and the nice toolbox I bought from an Enthusiast in Australia. He got it earlier from a guy in UK. In other words, almost everything what you see in my gallery is made by my own. This is the reason I'm so slow in building.
The rear armor plate needs to be milled for a proper fit of the deck. When in place it is under an angle of 9° and shows an open gap on the top. To make a tight fit with the grills etc. the area where it meets the rear deck should be milled vertical. This exercise should be done before you check the new lenghs of your deck in total. The lenghs will encrease !
Roland
thank you again for your frienly words on my Tiger 1. So fare I have used from Mike Stannard only the wing nuts recutted to M2 and the nice toolbox I bought from an Enthusiast in Australia. He got it earlier from a guy in UK. In other words, almost everything what you see in my gallery is made by my own. This is the reason I'm so slow in building.
The rear armor plate needs to be milled for a proper fit of the deck. When in place it is under an angle of 9° and shows an open gap on the top. To make a tight fit with the grills etc. the area where it meets the rear deck should be milled vertical. This exercise should be done before you check the new lenghs of your deck in total. The lenghs will encrease !
Roland
Der Weg ist das Ziel.
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Roland Mann
- Posts: 174
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:45 pm
- Location: Stavenow, Germany
- Been liked: 19 times
Hi Doug,
I think I have an even better answer regarding your question on the thickness of the rear armor. Out of my more than 100 drawings I found one regarding this matter. Please see my gallery -Hull-page 5.
This drawing was made precisely in correct scale from an original, incorporating the given thickness of grills from Armortek.
Best regards Roland
I think I have an even better answer regarding your question on the thickness of the rear armor. Out of my more than 100 drawings I found one regarding this matter. Please see my gallery -Hull-page 5.
This drawing was made precisely in correct scale from an original, incorporating the given thickness of grills from Armortek.
Best regards Roland
Der Weg ist das Ziel.
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Doug Pinkerton
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:25 pm
- Location: Charleston, SC
Hi Roland,
Thanks for posting the working drawing in your gallery, along with some more amazing photos of your pecision finishing work. I will definitely use that drawing as a template for my late Tiger when I get started with it. Whether I use your method or mine for lowering the rear deck, I think it's essential to modify the rear armor plate to get the proper thickness. Not having access currently to a milling machine and the proper tools to cut or remanufacture the hull deck, I'll need to rely on someone here in the US who can perform this kind of work. Pete Fertl comes to mind. Pete, I may be in touch with you shortly....
Best regards,
Thanks for posting the working drawing in your gallery, along with some more amazing photos of your pecision finishing work. I will definitely use that drawing as a template for my late Tiger when I get started with it. Whether I use your method or mine for lowering the rear deck, I think it's essential to modify the rear armor plate to get the proper thickness. Not having access currently to a milling machine and the proper tools to cut or remanufacture the hull deck, I'll need to rely on someone here in the US who can perform this kind of work. Pete Fertl comes to mind. Pete, I may be in touch with you shortly....
Best regards,
Doug