My Sherman
-
Robert E Morey
- Posts: 2352
- Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:59 am
- Location: Seattle, WA USA
- Has liked: 161 times
- Been liked: 847 times
My Sherman
Finally put the tracks on the Sherman today. Wow what a difference it makes. This inspired me to get this model finished up - the Sherman is an impressive looking model with the tracks on! Next up will be a new alloy deck like Dale has done.
-
Stewart Ashton
- Posts: 436
- Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:47 pm
- Location: Blackpool
- Been liked: 1 time
-
Adrian Harris
- Posts: 5133
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:46 pm
- Location: Berkshire (UK)
- Has liked: 1486 times
- Been liked: 1695 times
-
Derek Attree
- Posts: 1307
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:44 pm
- Location: london
- Has liked: 219 times
- Been liked: 200 times
-
Robert E Morey
- Posts: 2352
- Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:59 am
- Location: Seattle, WA USA
- Has liked: 161 times
- Been liked: 847 times
-
Kent Wiik
Hi Bob
Good to see your Sherman getting the attention he deserves again.
Many years ago (the days before the Panther era...) I noticed your work on the Sherman.
Stunning craftsmanship that took building to a new level.
I think you were the first one putting cast letter/numbers on the tank.
Will follow your build with interest.
Man I love your workshop and all those machines...
Keep up the good work!
/Kent
Good to see your Sherman getting the attention he deserves again.
Many years ago (the days before the Panther era...) I noticed your work on the Sherman.
Stunning craftsmanship that took building to a new level.
I think you were the first one putting cast letter/numbers on the tank.
Will follow your build with interest.
Man I love your workshop and all those machines...
Keep up the good work!
/Kent
-
Allan Richards
- Posts: 743
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:34 am
- Location: Kent
- Been liked: 10 times
-
Tim Bowman
- Posts: 1762
- Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:53 am
- Location: Northern California
- Been liked: 177 times
- Contact:
-
Robert E Morey
- Posts: 2352
- Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:59 am
- Location: Seattle, WA USA
- Has liked: 161 times
- Been liked: 847 times
Today I got the Sherm tracks turned right way round (Thanks Adrian) and even got them dirty!
Many thanks to Mark and Gill for their super fast turn around on the replacement speed controllers! These models are fun to drive and quite durable. Time will tell how they hold up - but my first thoughs are very impressive. The first drive for the Shermy was no babying. I really put it through its paces. Except for a tendancy to occasionally fold back one of the bogey wheels over really rough terrain it ran perfectly. The drive train held up in all sorts of mess; grass, moss, bark, dirt, twigs, roots, weeds, vines and even a lot of small rocks. I won't drive it this hard all the time
but I wanted to see what it could do.
One thing readily apparent though, the Sherm does not have the climbing power or traction (with identical motor power) that the Panther has. Just like in real life. Inferior gun, thin armor and poor traction = still very cool model! Hooah! I hate to think of what driving cross country with the smooth rubber track pad was like - traction would be even less! Oye!
I have a renewed respect for anyone who served in this tank in WW2.
I will hopefully post some videos soon!
Many thanks to Mark and Gill for their super fast turn around on the replacement speed controllers! These models are fun to drive and quite durable. Time will tell how they hold up - but my first thoughs are very impressive. The first drive for the Shermy was no babying. I really put it through its paces. Except for a tendancy to occasionally fold back one of the bogey wheels over really rough terrain it ran perfectly. The drive train held up in all sorts of mess; grass, moss, bark, dirt, twigs, roots, weeds, vines and even a lot of small rocks. I won't drive it this hard all the time
but I wanted to see what it could do. One thing readily apparent though, the Sherm does not have the climbing power or traction (with identical motor power) that the Panther has. Just like in real life. Inferior gun, thin armor and poor traction = still very cool model! Hooah! I hate to think of what driving cross country with the smooth rubber track pad was like - traction would be even less! Oye!
I have a renewed respect for anyone who served in this tank in WW2.I will hopefully post some videos soon!
-
Adrian Harris
- Posts: 5133
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:46 pm
- Location: Berkshire (UK)
- Has liked: 1486 times
- Been liked: 1695 times
Good to see another Sherman tearing up the dirt
> the Sherm does not have the climbing power or traction (with identical motor power)
I think that the Panther was supplied with higher ratio gears in the motors, in which case it's worse than you suspected as that should give the Sherman more torque than the Panther
Have you seen the picture in my gallery of my Sherman climbing my ramps
The Sherman track treads are a lot more robust than the Panther or Tiger ones but you can bend the return roller brackets and support springs if you get a stone trapped in there.
My motors for the prototype arrived today from Parvalux but they've omitted to drill and tap the mounting feet so I have to either dismantle them myself and do the work or send them back - likely to be quite a considerable expense given their weight
Adrian.
> the Sherm does not have the climbing power or traction (with identical motor power)
I think that the Panther was supplied with higher ratio gears in the motors, in which case it's worse than you suspected as that should give the Sherman more torque than the Panther
Have you seen the picture in my gallery of my Sherman climbing my ramps
The Sherman track treads are a lot more robust than the Panther or Tiger ones but you can bend the return roller brackets and support springs if you get a stone trapped in there.
My motors for the prototype arrived today from Parvalux but they've omitted to drill and tap the mounting feet so I have to either dismantle them myself and do the work or send them back - likely to be quite a considerable expense given their weight
Adrian.
-
Robert E Morey
- Posts: 2352
- Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:59 am
- Location: Seattle, WA USA
- Has liked: 161 times
- Been liked: 847 times
Hi Adrian,
The Sherm seems to have more trouble in loose stuff than the Panther. Maybe too much torque is the problem. It does just sit-n-spin sometimes. The narrower track will dig in instead of float like a wide track, making the problem worse.
I agree your super steep ramp test is something all right.
Any ideas on how to limit the bogey wheels getting pushed back? Other than the obvious, don't drive it over severe bumps. The Shermy doesn't like even a 1" height difference on my wood ramps, whereas the Panther will handle this no prob. I'd like to make some kind of stop to keep one wheel from folding back on the other. It doesn't appear to cause any permanent damage, but it looks painful. Like turning your foot around backwards on your ankle!
All the same I still like it and am glad I got one!
B
The Sherm seems to have more trouble in loose stuff than the Panther. Maybe too much torque is the problem. It does just sit-n-spin sometimes. The narrower track will dig in instead of float like a wide track, making the problem worse.
I agree your super steep ramp test is something all right.
Any ideas on how to limit the bogey wheels getting pushed back? Other than the obvious, don't drive it over severe bumps. The Shermy doesn't like even a 1" height difference on my wood ramps, whereas the Panther will handle this no prob. I'd like to make some kind of stop to keep one wheel from folding back on the other. It doesn't appear to cause any permanent damage, but it looks painful. Like turning your foot around backwards on your ankle!
All the same I still like it and am glad I got one!
B
-
Adrian Harris
- Posts: 5133
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:46 pm
- Location: Berkshire (UK)
- Has liked: 1486 times
- Been liked: 1695 times
> Any ideas on how to limit the bogey wheels getting pushed back?
When I first read that I though you meant they were getting pushed up and not returning.
Are you saying they are following the track backwards and bending back under the bogie keep ?
If they can do that then I would have thought it likely that your track was much too loose. It should be tight enough to "ring" if struck with a metal object. None of this flapping around like on the German cats
Adrian.
When I first read that I though you meant they were getting pushed up and not returning.
Are you saying they are following the track backwards and bending back under the bogie keep ?
If they can do that then I would have thought it likely that your track was much too loose. It should be tight enough to "ring" if struck with a metal object. None of this flapping around like on the German cats
Adrian.
-
Robert E Morey
- Posts: 2352
- Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:59 am
- Location: Seattle, WA USA
- Has liked: 161 times
- Been liked: 847 times
Adrian,
The arms are returning fine when pushed up. In fact I'm really pleased with the slide pad modification I did and the addition of two keeper screws to keep the volute springs centered as the suspension arms move up and down. These mods have worked very well.
The issue is the bogey wheels occasionally knuckling under as shown in my hack photo. The suspension arm pivots down so far the first wheel contacts the second wheel in the set. Crossing a gulley or over a root (anything that completely unloads the volute springs) can allow this to occur.
I'm a little hesistant to tighten the tracks too tight as this will prematurely stretch the links and wear the pins even faster. It will also make the whole system less able to tolerate any debris, dirt or rocks on the links. I think you are correct though, that more tension would reduce the tendancy to pivot under.
Seems like some kind of a stop or limit would be better?
I wonder if the real tanks had this problem?
I will see if I can get a little more track tension now that the links are broken in a bit.
Forgot to ask previous - didn't the proto have working motors? Or perhaps they got ruined in the rain? Thats an aweful thought - shame on someone.
The arms are returning fine when pushed up. In fact I'm really pleased with the slide pad modification I did and the addition of two keeper screws to keep the volute springs centered as the suspension arms move up and down. These mods have worked very well.
The issue is the bogey wheels occasionally knuckling under as shown in my hack photo. The suspension arm pivots down so far the first wheel contacts the second wheel in the set. Crossing a gulley or over a root (anything that completely unloads the volute springs) can allow this to occur.
I'm a little hesistant to tighten the tracks too tight as this will prematurely stretch the links and wear the pins even faster. It will also make the whole system less able to tolerate any debris, dirt or rocks on the links. I think you are correct though, that more tension would reduce the tendancy to pivot under.
Seems like some kind of a stop or limit would be better?
I wonder if the real tanks had this problem?
I will see if I can get a little more track tension now that the links are broken in a bit.
Forgot to ask previous - didn't the proto have working motors? Or perhaps they got ruined in the rain? Thats an aweful thought - shame on someone.
-
Adrian Harris
- Posts: 5133
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:46 pm
- Location: Berkshire (UK)
- Has liked: 1486 times
- Been liked: 1695 times
> I'm a little hesistant to tighten the tracks too tight as this will prematurely stretch the links and wear the pins even faster.
I can understand your reluctance but I do think you'll find the tank runs better with tighter tracks. I also found it stopped the tracks sticking to the sprockets and being dragged upwards in front of the first road wheel.
The M4A3 instructions for track tension says to tighten the tracks until there is 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch clearance between the track and a straightedge lying between the centre and rear support rollers. That's a maximum of 1/8" in our scale
> It will also make the whole system less able to tolerate any debris, dirt or rocks on the links.
Given the solid track tread and idler construction, I found my Sherman tended to crush most thing which got into the tracks
> Seems like some kind of a stop or limit would be better?
The only way I can see of doing that would be to run a length of threaded rod through the volute spring and into a tapped hole in the top of the bogie housing. You would have to have some slack under the radius arm though, in order to allow it some movement.
> I wonder if the real tanks had this problem?
There's certainly lots of photos of crews putting the tracks back on
> didn't the proto have working motors?
Like all good maintenance crews, they were removed before the tank was abandoned.
> Or perhaps they got ruined in the rain?
The turret traverse and gun elevation motors were both still in the tank when I collected it and, apart from a mild dusting of oxide, both motors are still fully operational
Adrian.
I can understand your reluctance but I do think you'll find the tank runs better with tighter tracks. I also found it stopped the tracks sticking to the sprockets and being dragged upwards in front of the first road wheel.
The M4A3 instructions for track tension says to tighten the tracks until there is 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch clearance between the track and a straightedge lying between the centre and rear support rollers. That's a maximum of 1/8" in our scale
> It will also make the whole system less able to tolerate any debris, dirt or rocks on the links.
Given the solid track tread and idler construction, I found my Sherman tended to crush most thing which got into the tracks
> Seems like some kind of a stop or limit would be better?
The only way I can see of doing that would be to run a length of threaded rod through the volute spring and into a tapped hole in the top of the bogie housing. You would have to have some slack under the radius arm though, in order to allow it some movement.
> I wonder if the real tanks had this problem?
There's certainly lots of photos of crews putting the tracks back on
> didn't the proto have working motors?
Like all good maintenance crews, they were removed before the tank was abandoned.
> Or perhaps they got ruined in the rain?
The turret traverse and gun elevation motors were both still in the tank when I collected it and, apart from a mild dusting of oxide, both motors are still fully operational
Adrian.
Last edited by Adrian Harris on Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
Allan Richards
- Posts: 743
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:34 am
- Location: Kent
- Been liked: 10 times
Robert,
Don't be afraid to tighten the tracks up because all you will do is to compress the suspension a little which is what you want to do to prevent the bogie tucking under. Run the model a little more to bed the tracks in, as I found mine slackened quite a bit initially, then adjust them to be tight an you will find the problem goes away.
As for climbing ability my Sherman has plenty of power but lacs the grip to climb as well as my Tiger. It is also a lot more bouncy than the Sherman, which I think was a problem with the full size tanks. This said they are great runners.
Don't be afraid to tighten the tracks up because all you will do is to compress the suspension a little which is what you want to do to prevent the bogie tucking under. Run the model a little more to bed the tracks in, as I found mine slackened quite a bit initially, then adjust them to be tight an you will find the problem goes away.
As for climbing ability my Sherman has plenty of power but lacs the grip to climb as well as my Tiger. It is also a lot more bouncy than the Sherman, which I think was a problem with the full size tanks. This said they are great runners.
Allan Richards