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Re: Brian's 2017 NO. 10 LATE TIGER 1 BUILD
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:47 pm
by Brian Ostlind
Tom OBrien wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:25 pm
I think if the tracks ride up onto the road wheels, it's not aligned properly between the drive sprocket and the idler wheel. It's the same problme I've had, and I think others. I'm hoping that by setting the idler wheel closer in to the hull, there should be more space for the track guides (teeth) where the idler wheel overlaps with the rear most road wheel.
My road wheels line up perfectly, so it's more than likely the idler alignment. It will be several weeks before the shop can get to it.
Your drive sprocket should be set with the key and the two locking screws. I added a pinch of locktight blue (NOT RED) to help keep the screws from coming loose. If you find you need to adjust the drive sprocket outward a tad on its axle, you can try placing a washer in there, but if all of your road wheels are lined up properly, you shouldn't have to do this. I still think the idler is the critical feature for alignment, all else being correct.
cheers... Tom
Hey Tom could it be possible that the sprocket and idler are fine where they are, but maybe the ROADWHEELS are out of alignment?
Re: Brian's 2017 NO. 10 LATE TIGER 1 BUILD
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:01 pm
by Adrian Harris
Brian Ostlind wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:30 pm
Hey Tom could it be possible that the sprocket and idler are fine where they are, but maybe the ROADWHEELS are out of alignment?
Unlikely, but not impossible.
The sprocket is the only part which is not set a particular distance from the hull by axle length etc.
I have a Tiger here for repair and it seems to have both sprockets too close to the hull, even though the taper lock bushes are in line with the end of the drive shaft. It runs off the tracks on every turn. At least when I'm driving
Adrian.
Re: Brian's 2017 NO. 10 LATE TIGER 1 BUILD
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:12 pm
by Brian Ostlind
The tolerances are pretty tight. I think when I tightened the axles to the hull that it pulled my swing arms and axles in tightly because some of mi little o rings got pinched. So there is some wiggle room depending where you attach the axle to the torsion bar.
Re: Brian's 2017 NO. 10 LATE TIGER 1 BUILD
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:51 pm
by Christoffer Ahlfors
Tom OBrien wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:25 pm
I still think the idler is the critical feature for alignment, all else being correct.
On my 2010 vintage tiger, the idlers are 4mm off outward IIRC, which is pretty much, but this has never caused any issues. Judging from a conversation with Mark at Armortek, this was a design flaw and I imagine it is long since corrected.
My tracks also climbed the sprockets in the beginning. At first I thought I had the tracks too loose. However, tightening them just worsened the situation. What cured it was increasing the chamfer on the sprockets. I did so in steps and it got better and better. Now, it is only possible to get a sprocket climb when backing up during a sharp turn in an upward slope and in terrain that resists turning and only to one side (I forget which). This probably means that my chamfers are not 100% symmetrical. I filed them by hand. I have not bothered to iron out that last wrinkle.
Re: Brian's 2017 NO. 10 LATE TIGER 1 BUILD
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:35 am
by Brian Ostlind
After about one hour total test running I am overall happy with the chassis but before I add more components I am going to remove the wheels and retighten the torsion par axle connection. Then re test the chassis and see if the alignment is improved. Right now i get good performance on most surfaces except hard turns going uphill.
Re: Brian's 2017 NO. 10 LATE TIGER 1 BUILD
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:26 am
by florian rudolf
Great detailling work. I follow this blog verry interested
Re: Brian's 2017 NO. 10 LATE TIGER 1 BUILD
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:23 am
by Armortek
Not wanting to derail Brian's build thread, but since the discussion started here - best to answer it here. If anyone has further comments, then drop us an email and we will kick off a new thread.
Phil's advise from earlier was quite correct, but I'll add a few more details here:
1. IDLER - There is an O ring (CP0193) that fits in a groove on CE0357. Make sure this is properly seated and allows CE0309 to be pushed all the way in.
2. SPROCKET RINGS - Make sure these are chamfered as Christoffer noted
3. SPROCKET - make sure that the sprocket and preceding road wheel are aligned as Phil noted. CP0178 DOES NOT need to it flush with the taperlock bush face.
Finally, do not use spacers/ washers behind the taperlock bush - this will cause it to fail at some point.
Kian
Re: Brian's 2017 NO. 10 LATE TIGER 1 BUILD
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:59 pm
by Brian Ostlind
It’s a bit chilly out where my Tiger sits.
Re: Brian's 2017 NO. 10 LATE TIGER 1 BUILD
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:10 pm
by Tom OBrien
Brian Ostlind wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:59 pm
It’s a bit chilly out where my Tiger sits.
It was 9F here in Colorado. Which brings up a good point about running in very cold temps.
If you're going to run in snow, it's best to "Cold soak", or let the tank sit outside, for about an hour. That way, the snow won't melt and then re-freeze on the tracks and running gear, causing it to fail or de-track.
Re: Brian's 2017 NO. 10 LATE TIGER 1 BUILD
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:57 pm
by Tom OBrien
Armortek wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:23 am
Not wanting to derail Brian's build thread, but since the discussion started here - best to answer it here. If anyone has further comments, then drop us an email and we will kick off a new thread.
Phil's advise from earlier was quite correct, but I'll add a few more details here:
1. IDLER - There is an O ring (CP0193) that fits in a groove on CE0357. Make sure this is properly seated and allows CE0309 to be pushed all the way in.
2. SPROCKET RINGS - Make sure these are chamfered as Christoffer noted
3. SPROCKET - make sure that the sprocket and preceding road wheel are aligned as Phil noted. CP0178 DOES NOT need to it flush with the taperlock bush face.
Finally, do not use spacers/ washers behind the taperlock bush - this will cause it to fail at some point.
Kian
The road wheels line up fine. The idler wheel does not.
The O Ring referenced in 1 above was the first thing I checked, and it seems to sit OK in its groove, at least enough so that I can install the other parts inside the hull that retain the idler axle.
I need to re-look at the champhoring and possibly take a bit more off the teeth.
Still, the idler wheel is so far outward from the hull that I plan to reduce the metal on its axle enough so it moves inward about 2mm, and I'll see how that works.
Re: Brian's 2017 NO. 10 LATE TIGER 1 BUILD
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:11 pm
by Brian Ostlind
Sounds like a plan. For me, the idler is really close maybe only .5mm off so I am going to leave it and move the last roadwheel or two out and see how it runs.
Re: Brian's 2017 NO. 10 LATE TIGER 1 BUILD
Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:56 am
by Christoffer Ahlfors
Tom OBrien wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:10 pm
If you're going to run in snow, it's best to "Cold soak", or let the tank sit outside, for about an hour. That way, the snow won't melt and then re-freeze on the tracks and running gear, causing it to fail or de-track.
I'll second that! Also don't run in wet snow. It will just pack up and form ice around the idler, potentially stretching the tracks to the breaking point (loose tracks are a good idea!). A 1:1 tiger has no issues with crushing that ice and forcing it out through the idler. The forces of ice don't scale and our aluminum tracks won't crush that ice...
Re: Brian's 2017 NO. 10 LATE TIGER 1 BUILD
Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:52 am
by Brian Ostlind
I built a new deck for my table lift so I can park my tiger on it. Tomorrow I’ll try driving it back into my house and getting it in the shop.
Rear deck: Brian's 2017 NO. 10 LATE TIGER 1 BUILD
Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:39 pm
by Brian Ostlind
I fiddled around and got some pinning done...
Re: Brian's 2017 NO. 10 LATE TIGER 1 BUILD
Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:36 pm
by Tom OBrien
Brian Ostlind wrote: ↑Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:52 am
I built a new deck for my table lift so I can park my tiger on it. Tomorrow I’ll try driving it back into my house and getting it in the shop.
Brian, great idea with the lift table -- I was going to mention it earlier. I used some two inch aspen tongue-and-groove remnants from a house build, and cut them to the proper width, fit them together and screwed them in place onto the metal table top. Also, I used an old rubber matt and affixed it onto the wood surface, which gives the tank great purchase when moving the table around. Also, devised a metal ramp that attaches to the lift table to roll the tank on and off.
Good point too about scalability. Scale stones and scale ice don't equate proportionately. This is probably why I've broken several tracks when running in gravel.