Churchill Mk3 number 67

[Gary Richardson]

Hi all

I spent the day working on the drivers visor latching mechanism. I decided to make it from brass to enable silver solder joints to be used, a small spring ensures the latch remains in the receive position. I made the release mechanism as per full size and it can be operated from within the tank. Unfortunately it was not possible to make the latch and door brackets connect and work. I would have had to put the latching mechanism very close to the hinge or make the brackets very long and it looked wrong. The amount of work required to modify the visor, hinge and bolt locations was beyond what I can achieve in my modestly equipped workshop.
The two small cap head bolts on the latch will be replaced with hex heads and the mechanism cleaned up prior to painting. Overall I think it looks fairly close to the real thing, just the two blanked holes left to add above and below the rod to complete this part of the build.
Next job is the Besa MG plate but I want to visit Bovington to check a couple of things out before I drill the rest of the holes required in it. The hull is coming along and I have the aluminium plates ready to shape for the applique armour as well as the brackets to make.

Regards
Gary

Visor latch components

Visor latch in the receive position

Visor latch release rod operated

[Gary Richardson]

Good morning all.

Well, it's nice to finally have a bit of sunshine. The garage was warm enough to get some priming done on the pannier components and some more progress was made on the drivers visor and MG plate.
I managed to get a trip to the Tank Museum last week primarily to measure all the applique armour components, this took several hours and inevitably I missed several vital measurements so I will complete the task on Saturday when I go to the model show. I have found plenty of photos of the additional armour but hardly anything about the measurements so mine will be from the Mk3 AVRE at the museum.
I intend to transfer the measurements to some 1/6 scale drawings I am working on for the pannier applique armour (complex pattern). Hopefully it will line up with the models panniers although it looks like some modification will be required where the horn joins the pannier side. If there is some interest I will add photos of the drawings and measurements to the Churchill topics on the forum. This may take me a week or two after I have been to the show.
While at the museum I got speaking to Peter who works/volunteers there. He was very knowledgeable and helpful. Peter solved many of the questions I have been chasing answers to, including about the primer on Churchills and topcoats that were used.
Churchills from 1942 were primed in red oxide with a SCC2 Brown topcoat, this changes in early 1944 to SCC15 Olive Drab, not to be confused with American Olive Drab which was a different paint mix. This means my Mk3 could have originally been painted in SCC2 , then reworked to become an AVRE, where it would have had the rework sprayed in red oxide before finally being painted in SCC15. Talk about adding layers ....
I will go for red oxide primer and SCC15.
Peter is obviously an avid modeller and was enthusiastic in explaining the nuances of painting armour. One thing I had not considered was the way armour plate is made. It means the metal ends up with a brownish finish and contains lots of additives during the process of making it that do not rust. Hence you get hardly any rust on armour plate during the working life of a WW2tank, and it does not show up as silver when you scratch through the paint. I then looked at several British tanks where the paint has chipped off and it is brown, rust does occur on fittings, track hangers ,etc that are not made of armoured metals.
I hope to see some of you at the model show.

Regards
Gary

[Gary Richardson]

Hi all

I have started work on the bogies. I spent some time deburring and degreasing the steel components. I applied a very thin layer of Kurust around the welded areas and wiped off the residue prior to applying the primer. There were some minor rust marks on the flat areas but they were easily removed with wire wool. Next step is to check all the aluminium components, deburr and then degrease prior to etch priming.
I am going to prime and paint most components before assembly as I did with the Tiger. This gives the best protection against the corrosion caused by differing metals interacting.
I would like to thank Dave Dibbs for the radiator he kindly sold me at the model show, it will be used for my 8 ton derrick and I have already modified it with two inlet and two outlet pipes. I will be doing a seperate build for the trailer later on.

Regards
Gary

Starting on the bogies

[Gary Richardson]

Hi all

I am continuing work on the bogies, fairly time consuming as there are a lot of parts to check and prime. There is a small point that may be of help to others building the Churchill I would like to share.
When you get to the point of bolting parts EX0209 and EX0211 together using the 50mm CSK bolt I noticed if you place the bogie frame on a flat surface the bolt head protrudes slightly causing it to rock. This results in the bogie frame being at a slight angle to the pannier, I decided to deepen the countersunk hole slightly and file the bolt head so it sat flush. Although it took a while, I think it will help ensure all the bogies stay in alignment making the tracks operate better.
I have also done a bit of research regarding SCC15 paint and have come to the conclusion that Mike Starmers latest Tamiya mix is the worth a try.
This is his latest mix.
Tamiya XF-81 - 5 parts Dark Green
Tamiya XF-71 - 1 part Cockpit Green
Tamiya XF-58 - 1 part Olive Green
I have ordered the paints and will topcoat the bogies once they arrive.
I used green Loctite very sparingly to install the bushes into the bogies and will use lithium graphite grease on the shafts.

Regards
Gary

Preparing the bushes

Pivot bearings being etch primed

Countersink deepened so bolt is flush.

[Gary Richardson]

HI all

Yet another mild day to get some priming done. I thought I would add a photo of all the parts that make up the bogies on the Churchill. I am very impressed with the quality of the castings and have had no problems with the bushes sliding into the bogies, I used green Loctite, very sparingly, to hold them in place and cleaned up any excess using Upol degreaser. I am going to top coat all the parts except the pivot bearings prior to assembly as it would be difficult to get into all the recesses using the airbrush once they are assembled. I have added the rubber pads and will spray over them. Next job is to give the springs a thorough degrease as they will also be sprayed SCC15.

Regards
Gary

All the bogie parts primed ready for the top coat and assembly

[Gary Richardson]

Good evening all

Today was a bit chilly for painting, so I carried on detailing the glacis plate. I drilled 3mm holes in the machine gun armour plate and epoxied in 3mm brass rods. These were left slightly proud and then centre punched to give the same appearance as the Mk3 at Bovington. There were only three large bolt heads on this plate on the Mk3 AVRE so I used aluminium tubing to line the other two then added the brass rods. I will be adding the angle iron sections to each end of the glacis plate but hope to make them functional. This will mean amending how the kit goes together between the panniers and the glacis plate ,but it should be relatively easy to do and will look more realistic.

Regards
Gary

MG armour modifications

[Andy Cameron]

Hi Gary,

I am new to the forum so apologies if this should go out as a global question . I have been following your build with interest. I will be collecting my Churchill on Monday from Armortek, never built an Armortek model so looking for some advice and thought who better to ask than someone actually in a build. I was wondering with this kit how mating parts fit after primer etc as I would like to prime everything as well before assembling does the etch primer and subsequent primer layers affect (depends I guess on coat thickness) but in general so far how have parts fitted after priming ? BTW great additional detailing……not sure I will get to that level yet.

Regards
Andy

[Brian Ostlind]

Hi Gary,

I am new to the forum so apologies if this should go out as a global question . I have been following your build with interest. I will be collecting my Churchill on Monday from Armortek, never built an Armortek model so looking for some advice and thought who better to ask than someone actually in a build. I was wondering with this kit how mating parts fit after primer etc as I would like to prime everything as well before assembling does the etch primer and subsequent primer layers affect (depends I guess on coat thickness) but in general so far how have parts fitted after priming ? BTW great additional detailing……not sure I will get to that level yet.

Regards
Andy

Priming pieces before construction isn’t that important unless they are the steel variety. Good luck with your build!

[Gary Richardson]

Hi Gary,

I am new to the forum so apologies if this should go out as a global question . I have been following your build with interest. I will be collecting my Churchill on Monday from Armortek, never built an Armortek model so looking for some advice and thought who better to ask than someone actually in a build. I was wondering with this kit how mating parts fit after primer etc as I would like to prime everything as well before assembling does the etch primer and subsequent primer layers affect (depends I guess on coat thickness) but in general so far how have parts fitted after priming ? BTW great additional detailing……not sure I will get to that level yet.

Regards
Andy

Hi Andy

Thanks for the nice comment on the detailing, I went to Bovington again yesterday to get further detailing ideas and finished the measurements for the applique armour. Glad to hear from another Churchill builder. Brian is correct in that it is the steel components that need the most protection from priming. This is only my second build, the first was my Late Tiger 1 number 13. I spent a lot of time reviewing various builds and how they were painted before I attempted doing the Tiger. One thing that stuck out was the chemical reaction between differing metals if they were not protected by primer. See various rebuilds of older models for confirmation. I primed and painted most of the parts on the Tiger during the assembly, yes there were a few instances where close tolerances meant the paint thickness needed addressing but to be honest, even the thinnest coat of paint would have meant doing some fettling on the parts concerned.
It did not affect any of the main components and with our weather conditions here I decided priming was important hence why I am priming all the parts on the Churchill. Do make sure you plug the screw holes and bush holes prior to priming and do a thorough degrease of all the parts. I use Upol degreaser which is brilliant, it also removes any overspill of Loctite which is important as paint doesn't adhere to Loctite.
To plug the holes where the bushes go on the bogies I used balsa rod which is easy to cut and soft enough to form a tight seal. To protect other parts like the axles for the bogies I cleaned them and screwed the two parts together, then used Frog tape which is great as it can stay on for ages but doesn't leave a sticky residue when you remove it.
Lastly, I am going to be using Tamiya paints ( a Mike Starmer mix ) as I did with the Tiger for the top coat and I found you can thin it by 50% and get a very thin coat of paint, my airbrush is an Iwata Eclipse set at 25 - 30 PSI and it works really well. There are some very good topics on this forum regarding painting etc and members with much more skill than I have, I have found everyone is very helpful which makes this hobby so enjoyable.
Good luck with your build, I hope you put it on this forum for all to see. Anything else I can help with just ask.

Regards
Gary

[Andy Cameron]

Thank you Gary and Brian

I was wondering about Aluminium parts, maybe a thin red oxide. Looking forward to the outcome of your visits to Bovington Gary.

Regards
Andy

[Adrian Harris]

Priming is critical if there are two differing metals in contact, due to galvanic corrosion occuring.

These are from a Comet I'm in the process of rebuilding:

The model appears to have been almost fully built up and then the primed and painted.

I clean and etch prime everything and put an additional layer of red oxide where steel and aluminium will meet.
Then prime the rest once everything has been fixed together.

Adrian.

[Derek Attree]

Hi Andy
Aluminium parts need etch primer .

Regards

Derek

[Gary Richardson]

Hi Andy

You are best using an etch primer for aluminium which gives a much better bond, I use Halfords etch primer which is grey, I then overspray with a light coat of red oxide which is the primer used on Mk3 Churchills from 1942 onwards. Originally a grey primer was used, I think the Kingforce Churchills had this primer. The inside of the hulls/turrets were white so you just use the grey primer there.*
Anyway, I am off to the garage now as I have some more detailing to do on the MG armour plate. I have taken photos of the Bovington MK3 four times now and I am still finding additional details to add

Regards
Gary

* P.S. it looks like the earlier versions marks were probably silver inside, with later version possible being White/Cream .see next few posts.

[Adrian Harris]

> The inside of the hulls/turrets were white

Have you been able to find any conclusive evidence for when they were white or silver ?

I've read they started off silver, then changed to white in about 1941 (Mike Starmer on missinglynx) to reduce the use of aluminium in the paint, then returned to silver later in the war.

Adrian.

[Gary Richardson]

Hi Adrian

Good point about the interior paint.
I found some information in Dick Taylor's Warpaint Volume 2 page 12. Interior colours varied according to the manufacturer but the two main choices were Silver (Aluminium paint) or White/cream. Silver was dominant from 1920 until mid war when White/Cream No 52 became the dominant colour. Aluminium was again used late 1944 -45 around the introduction of the Comet and Centurion.
I have found very little else written about the interior colours and tend to be wary of the colours mentioned by plastic kit manufacturers.
For my Churchill ,which is an AVRE I think either colour could be correct ,as they were reworked and the interior altered to include the Petard mortar.
I have seen the Mike Starmer comments being used on various website forums but nothing more conclusive. Maybe we should start a new thread as I am sure someone may have better evidence.

I have added a rider to my previous comment.

Regards
Gary