Neil's early Tiger 1 (2023)

[neil graham]

I had my first major regret of the build today..... I didn't follow Dave's lead and use Loctite 638 on the swing arms.

While positioning the arms at 30 degrees, the last one was very tight and trying to swing it around it broke at the weak loctite. The swing arm grub did bugger all stopping the arm move on the axle. So.... maybe I didn't tighten the grub enough, who knows.

What I do know is even with the swing arm grub removed, now the swing arm fairly easily moves through about 90 degrees on the axle before getting very stiff again, I could not undo it by hand (which perhaps says something about the weak threadlocker). There was no other course of action to be taken, into the vice it went.

This gap should NOT be here!

What was inside wasn't pretty!

Threadlocker & swarf gunk

OK, after filing and sanding that down to get a clean thread....I decided to do what I should have done originally....and use the 'good' loctite. EDIT: anyone reading this should use Loctite 263...the 'red' loctite. While both work, 263 is designed for this!

Get loose on this!

I then decided to remove the fixed end as it was clearly very tight.... will sand it down a touch before putting it all back together again.

Can Humpty be put back together again?

Question now is...... do I remove all the swing arms from the axles and use the good loctite? I am fairly lazy, so am leaning to 'no'...but wondering if the repercussions could be much worse downtrack.

[Derek Attree]

Hi Neil
Heat will break the loctite seal and allow
you to undo the threads .
I use a small blow torch on a go gas cylinder you can get them from machine mart in the UK or B&Q .

Might make a mess of your paint though.

Hope this helps

Regards Derek

[Dale jordan]

Hi Neil When I did my Tigers I used Loctite 263 RED Controlled/torque tension . If I remember I put the grub screws onto a hex driver and ground the end of the grub screw flat on a bench grinder or drilled through and pinned 638 is only for gluing bearings into housings
. Dale

[Dave Goodwin]

The build guide recommends 480 for metal to rubber, 638 for metal to metal and 280 for thread locking. I guess you could argue that the suspension arm pieces are thread-locking, but I think of parts that large as metal to metal, so I am using 638 for anything of that nature that I do not want to take apart. My plan is that if I ever break a suspension arm, I will simply replace all 3 parts - I've no intention of trying to take it apart to salvage anything from a broken one.

If it were me, I would break them down and rebuild them but that's just me and it's winter here so I have lots of time You are helped by the fact that the way the Tiger's suspension is laid out, forces generally act to tighten the connection. I'd still be worried about a sharp bump breaking the threadlock loose though. I can't imagine any play in those axles being good for the vehicle, as the track could get out of line and jam or derail.

I'm also a bit surprised by how much crud was in there. After initially fitting the threaded parts, did you clear out the threading and wash the pieces? After fitting the axles to the arms, I disassembled everything and washed and wire-brushed all the threads.

[David Battson]

Hi Neil,
looking at the assembly of your swing arms, a possible reason for the failure was not so much the strength of the loctite, but the fact that they don't appear to have been done up tight enough in the first place. The shoulder on the pivot shaft has a chamfer around the outer edge, whilst the swing arm has a corresponding dished recess. When properly tightened, the the chamfer on the shaft should be pulled into the recess on the arm. Looking at the your first photo, the recess appears to be full of loctite were there should have been a metal to metal contact and the chamfer has clean paint. If the last photo is of the reassembled arm then again unfortunately it doesn't look tight enough either.
I find that the best way to get them tight is put the pivot shaft in a vice (using soft jaws so it doesn't get marked) screw on the swing arm and then when hand tight, tap it round further with a soft headed hammer. You can usually get between a 1/8 to 1/4 extra turn before everything pulls nice and tight.
David

[neil graham]

Thanks for all the advice guys, its really appreciated.

Yes, I dry fitted each axle (some of which required me to use the vice) before breaking them all down, sanding thoroughly before degreasing. All axles were capable of being hand fitted when I originally added the loctite. So most of that gunk that came out was the old threadlocker.

The gap you see is after the 90 degree unwinding, so it originally was tight (ish).

After sleeping on it I have decided that I will break down all the swing arms and re-loctite. While I am sure 638 would do a much better job than the mild threadlocker, 263 does seem better suited as it claims to "permanently locking and sealing threads up to 25mm". I will also give them a 'love tap' in the vice as one final tightening.

[neil graham]

Not much to update..... just working my way through the wheels, doing two coats of dunkelgelb on both sides.

How many wheels on a Tiger you say?.....48!!

One thing of interest I discovered this week was the double ended grub. Perfectly smooth on both ends!

Good luck getting this in tight

[Tim Carr]

Neil
Please take a look at what Alastair Cooke did with his swing arms on his "Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann" thread, starts about the middle of page 7. I'm going this route, some folks in the past drilled and pinned the swing arms. His Feb 22nd posting is the main part.

viewtopic.php?t=7796&start=90

Good Luck with everything and Enjoy the build.

Later Tim

[neil graham]

Thanks Tim,

I had read that thread but I don't have the drill press or any milling tools. I am finished with the swing arms, they have red 263 loctite in them now....they aren't going anywhere.

[neil graham]

Finally finished the dunkelgelb on the wheels...... now its just the matt varnish to do.....the masking tape can then finally come off and I can glue the rubber on (yes, I know this can be messy and I am hoping the varnish and quick rag work will mean minimal touch-ups required).

I tell you....I have built plenty of Tigers in my life, albeit little plastic ones (1:72, 1:35 and what I used to think was the 'big' one....1:16)... but I swear I don't recall the wheels ever being so endless!!

With the last yellow paint in the airbrush dumped on the hull

So..... I am now preparing for life after wheels, well, almost. I have sanded, degreased and etch primed the rest of the main armor pieces of the lower hull. I did it outside this time as those rattle cans give pretty much everything in my shed a light dusting. Will give them the red-oxide treatment in the next day or two and attach them to the hull. It might even start to resemble a tank!

Is it Ocean Grey or Military Grey?

I am starting on the wheel assembly as well, gave these all a thorough degreasing, will loctite in the bearings, probably tomorrow, before masking, etch priming, priming....painting.

So shiny!

[neil graham]

Its a long weekend in Australia, I made the most of it.

I tried to use a box, then the ground, but then having a eureka moment, I dismantled a few things on the BBQ (yes, a sacrilege for Australians I know) and found my perfect outside paint station, with credit to the bike box from kmart! So all wheel parts not already started get their prime time in the sun (literally). This made life a lot easier I have to say!

Turn me over, I am done!

So, etching all sides....then priming with red oxide. Yes, this took a lot of passes.. this is the result:

All primed

I even neatly masked the bearing ends (but not the other end)

Only 12 wheels remain without 2 coats of matt varnish..... hopefully tomorrow, though all the other wheel parts are backed at my inside paint station demanding attention.

However, the time has clearly come for Loctite 480, it has bided its time in the fridge and only eaten a few eggs!

Hmmm, eggs!

Following the sanding and masking....an etching coat, 2 coats of primer, 2 coats of dunkelgelb, then 2 coats of matt varnish....all on each side.... there is still some original green on the masking tape....don't ask me how!

Is that mould?

Masking tape that is several months old is removed to reveal:

Scratched and shiny

I tried a test fit, the rubber fits easily, but not loosely....its perfect.

Beaker agrees it is a perfect fit

[Dave Goodwin]

I've been masking the bolt-side of the rim before gluing the tires on. That's worked pretty well in keeping any squeeze-out from staining the paint.

You're making great progress!

[neil graham]

Started on the dunkelgeb on the wheel parts....

This looks just like Space Invaders!

Finished the two coats...

Pew, pew, pew

Putting off the loctite of the rubber wheels, partially as it has been very hot and the loctite 480 operates best at 4-8 degrees, but mainly because I am a bit of a wuss.

I also had the major distraction of actually having to work, which is ridiculous! Looking forward to be able to build tanks whenever I want!

[neil graham]

Bit of a pause since my last post....had a wedding anniversary to attend, apparently my own....and she said something about it being special, 25 years or thereabouts.

All the front & side armor is now fully primed, including a dabbed in coat of Mr Surfacer 500 (not on the skirts though). Took the advice and sanded them down after Mr Surfacer (thanks Dale), before the red oxide primer.

Degreased, then started the etching & priming of all the other lower hull & front armor components, including all of the hinges.

Scratching the inside of the rubber to give the glue the best surface to stick to.

....and as its a Tiger, we can't have a post without a wheels shot. It took me half an hour just to take the masking tape off all of the wheels!!

I am inching slowly to the point where I have to glue the rubber on.... clearly not in a huge rush

[Tim Carr]

Happy 25th Anniversary. Did that one 23 years ago. Sounds like we both are Lucky.

Tank is looking good also.

Later Tim