Role play scale tank driving ranges in the UK

[Tony Devlin]

Hi everyone, just wanted to see if anyone knew of a site here in the UK where you can bring your Armortek tank to drive, take part in simulated battles and meet other owners on a regular basis. Not talking about model shows, but a place where you can take part in simulated battles. I have looked on the internet and cant seem to find anything. I have a piece of land in Hertfordshire that I am thinking about turning an acre into a scaled down battle scene...scaled forests, bridges, damaged buildings that sort of thing...Do you know of anywhere? or would there even be a call for such a venue. Would love to know your thoughts...Thanks in advance.

[Chris Hall]

Interesting idea. I can think of two main issues …

1. Umpiring. As we don’t actually fire things (at least legally, and it would spoil the paintwork ) someone would need to devote their day to deciding which tank hit which, whether it was a penetrating or glancing hit, whether a particular part was now u/s, whether the crew morale was shaken etc. etc. And then there’s the wider question of when a ‘side’ has lost - we don’t fight to the death, do we ?

2. Balance (to which you might also add Theatre). We all know that German WW2 stuff is far and away the most popular, and would outnumber the Allies by many to one. Eastern Front battles would be particularly one-sided ! And I really wouldn’t enjoy going up against massed Tiger 1’s, which would be totally unhistoric.

To be honest, I get pleasure from showing my tanks off to interested members of the public. Oh - and shooting little boys, of course . But it’s certainly a pleasure to drive on a proper laid out ‘battlefield’, so I’d support that. I just don’t think you need to make it a war zone (which could also attract the unwanted attention of the anti-fun brigade ).

Hope this helps,

Chris

[Tony Devlin]

Thanks Chris, very well made points. I love driving my Tiger 1 tank and looking at buying the pershing m26 next year. I am lucky enough to have the garden space to drive it, but would love to drive it in a scaled down setting. I guess battle simulation would not be such a great idea, but if I were to convert say 1 acre of land to scaled down forests using real dwarf conifers and simulating a partially destroyed village or two with bridges, embankments, hills etc, it would be a cool place to drive a tank around and photographically brilliant. I couldn't find anything like this that exists so I am seriously thinking about doing this and starting in the early spring 2023.

I will ponder some more but wanted to see what the forum members thought. Your comments and support on something like this are very much appreciated.

[Tim Page]

Hi Tony, Myself and others have tried to get something like this off the ground before.
I was unable to find anywhere that had car access with parking and would allow some sort of onsite storage for buildings etc.

I am south of Milton Keynes and would gladly support and help anyone who can make some progress on this idea.

Cheers
Tim

[Peter Quambusch]

Hi Tony,

I think it´s a wonderful idea to create a "playground" for the tanks in the UK. Similar ones already exist in Denkark and Germany. In case you would like to get some inspiration, have at look at the posts here on this forum.
Love to see your project making progress.

Cheers

Peter

[Andy Walker]

Sounds like a fantastic idea. Actually being able to drive our tanks around a simulated battle ground is far better than trundling around in a a garden.

[Gary Richardson]

Hi Tony

What a great idea, it would be good to see the tanks in a more natural environment. Having a village, bridges, etc makes driving much more interesting.

Regards
Gary

[Tony Devlin]

Hi guys, thanks so much for your positive comments. I own a site in Hertfordshire...10 mins from Stansted Airport. It is made up of 6 Acres of Woodland and 4 Acres of pastureland. I have a couple of tenants who rent from me, but I can easily set aside at least 1 or 1.5 acres of grass pasture land to create such a range. I have road access and parking for up to 20 cars if not more. I have a secure container on site and a serviced portaloo. I think we could get something started there that would grow into something pretty smart. Ill keep you all posted should I go for it..Best regards...Tony

[Jerry Carducci]

Tony even though I'm just over here in the colonies i Find it's something not given the attention due. While I have no
doubt that given the great size of this country there may be such a running area on private land somewhere it's not well known surely.
We've all heard of such venues for the 1/16 scale people; those exist. I have no doubt its partially a question of someone
wanting to dedicate the land for such a thing, who will maintain it and sadly public liability. I actually have heard of at least once chap
in the East who has made a sort of run course on his land although likely not as extensively developed as you suggest.

It's one of those things that would truly enhance the hobby, broaden the exposure and allow modelling chums
the same sort of interaction that is enjoyed by those who follow other aspects of RC and model building.

Boaters have their ponds and lakes, fliers their airfields and live steamers their railways.

Desiring such a place to run the models, to me anyway is a natural outcome of having the interest in these models no matter
what the scale. I wish you much success.

Jerry

[Chris Hall]

I have road access and parking for up to 20 cars if not more. I have a secure container on site and a serviced portaloo.

You also need to consider access for some sort of recovery vehicle. Our tanks do, unfortunately, break down, shatter track plates, even run out of electrickery. Railway layouts have a ‘fiddle yard’ for repairs, but our tanks are a bit heavier

[Brian Ostlind]

Wow what a generous offer, if anyone within 50 miles of me provided this setup I would be all over it!

[Gerhard Michel]

Hi all,

well, showing tanks in action is one thing, creating real battle conditions is another thing. Please keep in mind that tank battles were fought out in distances of 600 to 2,000 m, in 1/6 scale 100 to 340 m. What will you detect on a model in 100 m distance?

Firing with diodes or lasers (as with Heng Long toys) would not please me. A comrade had a good idea using fireworks throwing fireballs out of the cannon 50 meters and more, but this is a real good feature only for 1/4 scale models. With 1/6 scale you would have to apply the firework outside of the cannon. Not a good idea I think.

Our sandpit with its trees up to 2 meters was a good ground for realistic action, because the tank can overrun such little trees (and it was allowed to to).

[Liam Mahoney]

Hi
This is an interesting topic, an analogy that I was once given when making a suggestion that I would like to make such a area was based on “mates with paintball guns”, they all get together and for the first 2 or 3 meeting they all show up then after a few months there are less turn up then no one shows, so why bother as it won’t last. But as Sir Laurence Hartnett wrote always seek advice from the experts but it doesn’t mean they are right or that you must follow their advice. So I looked at it as something to do for my own enjoyment and for others to enjoy should they wish, without expectations.

I believe this would be something that a lot of enthusiast would enjoy and do consider or imagine from time to time and with the population density in the UK I am surprised that it has not been done. But then again it can become expensive and time consuming and to some time is the issue, also once you start working on true 1/6 scale buildings and driving areas things become quite big, 3 or 4 houses at true scale is quite an area and the area you have is never big enough.

We have been quite fortunate and have about 3 acres that we use which is close to the house and my shed so working on it isn’t too difficult. It has taken about 3 years to get to a very basic driving area with some features, with a lot more in the pipeline, it is one of those things that I don’t think you would ever finish, always just one more detail. As well as the rail and bridge area there is about 350m (2.1km scaled) of hidden driving tracks in the trees (those dam trees).

As for the “drive/battle days” we have a few friends come over (450km round trip for some) for the day, mostly photo days, and yes as mentioned above most do not want their works of art damage. So to spice thing up and keep the interest I have been working on FPV systems that we can simply drop into the cupola of any tank and with a WiFi home hub network in the trees, mainly to get the signal through the trees we can sit in a shaded cover and drive the tanks. I am still having some trouble with the 2.4G messing with the transmitter signal once you get to the far corner of the area (about 100m away which isn’t much for the fly boys but those bloody trees) but 5G should fix that. Driving from the cameras the 350m of tracks in the long grass and tress is quite an interesting challenge and as the camera lenses are close to the ground it gives you a totally different view and scale with judging distance every tricky.

So then the real challenge starts... 2 tanks as a team are given a map of the tracks a route and a time to travel the course, on the way there are objects that must be identified and marked on the drivers map (basically a navigational rally). This of course does require a referee/moderator but is quite interesting fun, particularly when obstacles are placed in the route and things like slippery timber ramps make the path one way only so the operator must go forward. With so many more options such as forced “repair” making the drive return to a dedicated area for a set time before returning to the course, adding to the total time for that run, yes on and on it goes and that’s before you start targeting anything, be it laser, infrared or gelballs... one upside is the boys from work enjoy it and it is good to see them working with and competing against each other.

Yes some would say get a life...

The rail car not quite finished

11 tonnes of blue metal, placed by hand...?

Temporary mounts for the cameras.

I don’t have any good video of driving as I’m still working on better quality recording systems but I have some stills from the video.
This was a test day, once the track has been mown it is much tidier.

And no I can’t cut down the trees... this bloke would have nowhere to live.

So if you ever make it down this way you’re welcome to come and have a drive.

It’s a long way off Vince Abbott’s masterpieces but it is a start, https://vincesgallery.smugmug.com/Hobbies

I hope this was of interest
Thanks
Liam

[Tony Devlin]

Hi Liam,

What a brilliant set up you have. This is the sort of thing I would love to have here in England, but cant seem to find...Love the detailing you have put into this. Your post has made me more determined to create something similar here. I think I will grassroots the start and add to along the way to try and spread the cost. My initial thoughts were to create a driving range with features and then take suggestions from users on the best way to simulate battles. My site is 10 acres and the area I have in mind is approx 2 acres of grass land, completely surrounded by shrubs and trees, but fully accessible from an access road I have installed. I would look to plant some slow growing dwarf conifers approx 3 to 4 foot high approx 120 of them with a track splitting the mini forests, create two main driving tracks, a river bank with two crossings, form large embankments so the tanks can drive up and over them, elevated platforms so the drivers get a better viewing area and then add some detailing throughout, MG nests, craters, bombed out buildings, that sort of thing. I would also look to have a means of recovery...I do have a quad and tipping trailer which I would assume would be sufficient should a tank break down and an area under cover so tank owners can tinker, carry out repairs etc. A lot to think about, plan and execute, but I am super excited about doing this.

[Tim Page]

That sounds perfect Tony.
Roll on to spring with some warmer weather.

Cheers
Tim