Vince's Tiger 1 late variant 2017

[Vince Cutajar]

Hi Simon and thanks for having a look.

Like you, I am curious as to the 30 degree angle when previous Tiger models had a 35 degree swing arm angle. I am just hoping that it is not a misprint. The only reason I can think of is that up to a particular time the torsion bars were thinner. This current model has got torsion bars of 5.5mm and 5mm diameter.

Vince

[Simon Peck]

Hi Vince,
The 2010 Tigers had the same torsion bars, 5.5 and 5.0mm, I’m not sure if prior to that they were different? I remember asking years ago about suspension angle, and the early experts had settled on 33 degrees as being the optimum angle, though some set the last one or two torsion bars per side at a slightly steeper angle (roughly 35degrees) due to weight of batteries. Maybe Kian or Mark can shed some light?

[Greg Stephens]

Good idea with the drivers. I have burned out parts of three sets of allen wrenches with those m bolts. I'll check Harbor Freight tomorrow.

[Adrian Harris]

Earlier Tigers had 4mm and 5mm torsion bars.

A lot more of the plates were steel, including the hull and pannier floors, hull top plate and turret lid, making the tank much heavier overall.

Adrian.

[Simon Peck]

Hi Adrian,
2010 is all aluminium just as current variant, but somewhere along the way Armortek has gone from same size torsion bars being set at 35 degrees to 30.
But you raise another question, the Tiger is now lighter, riding on thicker (presume therefor stiffer) torsion bars?

[Christoffer Ahlfors]

If you have adjustable suspension, don't worry about the angle for now. When the model is complete, batteries are in and you have made a few runs, it is time to adjust. For the early version, it looks best when the top of the track is just about level with the idler, as on the prototype. You may well find that your model is rear or front heavy, depending on where you put the batteries and if they are lead type. If so, you will need to adjust angles accordingly. It's typically not that critical.
Mine was a 2010 model also and after finding that it needed adjustment, I rebuilt it to become adjustable similarly to the Armortek design. A great improvement, indeed! When and if I can afford replacing the lead batteries with lithium - I will have to readjust. And I will be happy to!

Cheers

[Christoffer Ahlfors]

But you raise another question, the Tiger is now lighter, riding on thicker (presume therefor stiffer) torsion bars?

I think there was general consensus in the old days that the suspension sagged at the battery end over time with the old design and that this was attributed to the torsion bars being too weak. My 2010 tiger sagged pretty immediately when loaded. Investigating the cause, showed that it was instead the grub screws that ate their way into the steel of the torsion bars when they twisted under load. There are some serious forces involved there! Filing the grub screws flat was therefore a suggested improvement. In the old, fixed, design, that referred to the single grub screw that held the fixed end. In the adjustable design, there are now two grub screws holding the bar, which is now preground optimally. I suspect that filing the grub screws flat is still a good idea, but the new design is very much more robust and I am really not sure if the torsion bars need to be that thick. It sort of prevents the rocking motion of the prototype when accelerating or braking heavily. Has anybody experimented with putting the thicker bars in the middle instead to achieve this?

Cheers

[Vince Cutajar]

Interesting discussion although now I am more worried that 30 degrees could be a misprint. For the moment I intend to leave them set at 30 degrees and see what ground clearance I will achieve with this angle. Ideally the ground clearance should be around 78mm.

Vince

[Adrian Harris]

I believe that the track at rest should land on the third road wheel if the tension is correct.

Adrian.

[Adrian Harris]

Like you, I am curious as to the 30 degree angle when previous Tiger models had a 35 degree swing arm angle. I am just hoping that it is not a misprint.

The 2012 Late Tiger instructions which accompanied the SturmTiger also states 35 degrees. I'm surprised the text has changed between the releases.

I've seen several of older release Tigers using their idlers as road wheels, but this may just be due to age and being stored year on year sitting on their wheels. I raise my models on wooden blocks to take the load off the suspension.

Adrian.

[Vince Cutajar]

Wrote to Armortek about the suspension arm angle and Kian confirmed that it is 30 degrees. "But a few degrees here or there does not matter".

I have also started cleaning the tracks to remove as much as possible the black dust. I am just using water and a 1" paint brush and it is working nicely.

Some time ago I bought some 3mm bolts with a one size smaller hex head for the idler hubcaps.

I have seen photos of the inner face of the idler with six bolts and as I have a surplus of these bolts I thought I would also use them on the inner face of the idler.

I have also added some lock washers using solder lugs.

Vince

[Christoffer Ahlfors]

Ideally the ground clearance should be around 78mm.

Instead of ground clearance, I suggest you look at appearance of the track and compare to period photos. That will be much more noticeable.

Cheers,
/Christoffer

[Vince Cutajar]

Started hacking the M/G mantlet (CE0124). Basically what I am attempting is opening up and rounding off the outer aperture. Even the item shown on page 5 looks better than what I have now. I suspect earlier Tigers had a better item. I haven't finished yet but it is all looking promising.

I also fitted all the visor armour bits and pieces.

Vince

[David Stewart]

Started hacking the M/G mantlet (CE0124). Basically what I am attempting is opening up and rounding off the outer aperture. Even the item shown on page 5 looks better than what I have now. I suspect earlier Tigers had a better item. I haven't finished yet but it is all looking promising.

Afternoon Vince

Lovely work, enjoying your build log. Don't worry my old 2010 Tiger kit needed the M/G mallet reworking too. I believe all the tiger kits need the same mod, just adds to the fun!

Keep up the good work

David

[Vince Cutajar]

Thanks David for the nice comments. Enjoy the bank holiday weekend.

Vince