Help with Command tanks antenna

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Paul Wills
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Help with Command tanks antenna

Post by Paul Wills »

Hi All,
I can find lots of reference to the command tanks being easily identified by having extra antenna; however I cannot find any drawings or photos to position one :shock: ! Can anyone help me with where on the turret the command antenna should go, or did it go on the turret at all? :?

Paul :wink: .

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Adrian Harris
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Post by Adrian Harris »

Mike Stannard has it shown as being on the right rear chassis, in the triangle between the engine grill and the turret ring:

http://www.afceremonials.com/catalog-pa ... TigerB.pdf

A couple of photos in "Tigers At The Front" seem to bear this out, with the whip antenna being moved on to the turret roof in a central rear position.

Adrian.

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Paul Wills
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Post by Paul Wills »

Hi Adrian,

The one you mention Mike shows on the deck at the right is the standard antenna that all tigers had, the one I am looking for info on, is the commanders extra antenna.
i.e. in the battle of Kursk my tiger 1321, commanded by SS-Untersturmführer Helmut Wendorff, was the command tank for Zug II, which had four tigers under it, 1322, 1323, 1324 and 1325, and commands from the Zug Commander would be passed over the standard radio set. However, the Zug commander had a second radio for receiving commands from the company Commander Tiger 1301 and I am sure I have read somewhere that there was an antenna on the turret roof, and that the one I am looking for.

Thanks for trying though. Paul :wink: .

Mike Stannard (toyrific)

Post by Mike Stannard (toyrific) »

Hi Paul

Tiger 1 Command Tanks had three antennas. A Sternatenna D, a 1.4 Meter Stab Antenna (Mounted on turret roof) and a 2 Meter Stab Antenna.

The attached plan shows the positions.

Mike

TIger 1 Plan.
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Tiger 1 with antennas fitted.
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Adrian Harris
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Post by Adrian Harris »

I stand (well sit) by my explanation :D

All Tigers have an antenna at that hull position, with standard tanks being the usual whip antenna. The Panzerbefehlswagen had the stenantenna mounted on the hull and the whip moved to the turret.

Anyhow, Mike diagram is a much simpler explanation :wink:

As an aside, if the Bovington Tiger is 131, shouldn't it have a stenantenna ?

Adrian.

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Post by Paul Wills »

Hi Adrian,

Well I did say drawings: lol: if this was the apprentice and I was Sir Allen, I would have to say Adrian poor presentation no photos, no drawings, “you're firedâ€

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Post by leesellars »

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :evil:

Lee
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Mike Stannard (toyrific)

Post by Mike Stannard (toyrific) »

Hi Guys

As there seems to be some controversy over the positioning of command tank antennas I thought I would post what I have found. Now I am no expert and there may be others with more knowledge on this than me. For my research on parts I make I first use scaled drawings in 1.35 scale as I feel these have been around for a while and a lot of research has been done to create them. I then try to cross reference them with period pictures, I tend not to use museum samples as these are often rebuilt and may not be correct. Unfortunately I have not found many period pictures showing the command tank antenna array, but I think I have enough to prove a point.

Having spent 2 years as a Regimental Signal Warrant Officer in the British Army Mechanized Battalion I know the basic radio distribution.
Platoon/Troop APC's/Tanks would have one radio on a Company/Squadron net. Hence one antenna.
Company/Squadron Command APC's/Tanks would have two radios, one on the Company/Squadron net and one on the Battalion net.
Battalion Command APC's/Tanks may have three or maybe more radios. One on the Battalion net, one on the Regiment net and a third for other uses such as contact with recon units, Division, supply, support and such. Quartermaster AFV's would also have two radios, one on the Battalion net and one on a supply net to keep none battle traffic off the fighting troops net. Now this is just the basic set up and many units will have different configurations.

I do not know to much about the German radios as I only researched the antennas as a visual look from the outside. This is how I see a Tiger Battalion antenna set up to be.
Troop Tanks had one radio and one antenna which I think we all agree was mounted behind the turret on the right side.
Squadron Command tanks had two radios and antennas. A Sternantenna D was mounted in the place of the basic antenna mount, this mount was moved to either of two places, the turret roof or on the left side behind the turret. Either place is correct. See drawings and pictures below.
Drawing showing Sternattenna D (mast) and turret mounted antenna.
Image
Period picture showing Sternattenna D and turret mounted antenna. Note no antenna to the left rear of the turret.
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Drawing showing Sternattenna D and a antenna mounted on the left rear of the turret. No antenna mounted on the turret. I have not found a period picture of this set up.
Image

The Battalion Command Tank had three radios and three antennas. The Sternantenna D mount to the right rear of the turret, a 1.4 meter antenna mounted on the turret and a 2 meter antenna mount on the left rear of the turret. See drawing and pictures below.
Drawing showing Sternattenna D and antenna mounted on the right rear of the turret. A antenna mounted to the left rear of the turret and another mounted on the turret. I have not found a period picture of this
Image
Here is a picture of a 1.35 scale model of the Wittman (007) Tiger as a Battalion Commander, this clearly shows three antennas and I am sure it was well researched to be published in The Modeler's Guide to the Tiger Tank.
Image
I have found a picture of a Panther with the three antenna set up, this I believe is a Battalion level Command Tank. Basic antenna in the same position, Sternantenna mounted center rear of the engine deck and the third antenna mounted on the turret roof.
Image

This is the best I can come up with from the research I have done. If anyone has better references please post here as I for one would be interested to know more.

If the Bovington Tiger was a command tank it is likely the Sternantenna never survived, only close inspection of the areas where the brackets for the mast and extension rod stowage canister was fitted to see if there are any signs of the brackets being fitted would tell. But with restoration these are likely long gone.

Mike

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Paul Wills
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Post by Paul Wills »

Wow Mike,
I don't think anyone is going to argue with that presentation, great information,thanks for sharing.
I was in the skins armoured corps for four years, I spent some of that time on Chieftains.
Paul :wink: .

Mike Stannard (toyrific)

Post by Mike Stannard (toyrific) »

Hi Paul

I was in a Mec Battalion (1st Bn Royal Anglians) in Paderborn from 66 to 68 and again in Celle (3rd Bn Royal Anglians) from 70 to 73, depending when you served we might have been on exercises together.

Mike

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Post by Paul Wills »

Sorry Mike I'm a little younger than you, I was in the 5th Royal Inniskilling Dragoon Guards from 83 to 87, then held on reserve 90 to 91. Although I have just received my letter this year officially releasing me, because I am now too old!!!! :shock:

66 to 69 my eldest brother Jim was in the Welsh guards, you might have bumped in to him, mind you I think you would have remembered he was a bit of a character, the 3 second rule applied to my girlfriends as well as my fox hole :lol: . Photo of him on exercises in Germany I think, I won’t tell you what he is doing though :shock: .
Image

Paul :wink: .

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Post by leesellars »

Hello Paul

Pint in pint out by the looks of it. :oops:

Lee
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Post by Jim Slothower »

Paul,

the machine gun port on the turret was also welded shut and plugged on the Command Tanks as a Radio filled in that space as I understand it.

Jim

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Post by Paul Wills »

Hi Lee,

Yep that’s the one; well that’s what he told our mother :shock: , before she found that out the picture used to take pride of place on the mantel above the fire :lol: !

Hi Jim,

Thanks for that bit of info, not sure if I will do that as I’ve glued in an MG34 now, and it will likely be a bugger to get out, how’s it go, if you want something to come out it won’t :x , and if you don’t want it to it falls out :roll: !!!

Paul :wink: .

Richie Wignall

Post by Richie Wignall »

hi Paul, you look a bonny bugger there heee heee heee!!! :P

richie :wink:

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