What's the Starter Plate tool used for?

Rich Stinchcomb · Post by **Rich Stinchcomb** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:59 am

On many Tiger starter plates is a rod with what appears to be a fitting (square/round?) at the lower end. What was the rod used for?

Rich

The starter plate on Mike Kasputis Tiger:

Kent Wiik · Post by **Kent Wiik** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:13 pm

Hi Rich,

Good to see you on the forum again, many moons ago long before I become a member here I admire your build and eyes for details.
You become some kind of a raw model for my own builds and how to get an accurate model tank, I thank you for that.

Has decided not to post as frequent as before other then on my own Panther saga as some bulling from fellow forum members on me has occurred but as no one has come to your aid I make an exception here.

Please look here:
http://tiger1.info/EN/StarterClutch.html
That rod is a tool to lock the adapter to the flywheel of the engine.

Kind regards
Kent

Rich Stinchcomb · Post by **Rich Stinchcomb** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:20 am

Hi Kent

Thanks a lot for the complement. Over the years, I've always respected your knowledge and skills. I hope that you continue to contribute to the forum and it's members.

I've spent many hours on David's site and somehow missed that page. Great information right down to the length of the rod. It appears the fitting at the end is round. I assume the fitting gave the operator something to push and pull against. It is interesting that David mentions a retaining chain but doesn't show it's location. I'll have to look at period pictures a little closer and see if the chain is visible. Nice thing to have so my custom tool doesn't fall off. Things like this is why my Tiger build has taken me eight years (on and off) to finish.

Cheers
Rich

Andrea Daviero · Post by **Andrea Daviero** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:44 pm

I remember to had read about its usage. To start a big engine you need a lot of force, but, by accelerating a flywheel that is mechanically disconnected to the engine, pulling the adapter you will connect the flywheel to the engine, and if speed is sufficient it will crank the engine hoping that it will start.

EDIT:
Rich, I found very useful your website for mods on my tiger!
Thanks for that!

Rich Stinchcomb · Post by **Rich Stinchcomb** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:25 am

This image from Vince Abbott's series on the Bovington Tiger show what appears to be the remains of what I speculate is where the tool chain was attached to the starter plate. It is to the right between the small welded tool holding tube and the starter plate mounting nut. It is also just about 10 o'clock relative to the small hole on the right. Revisions of the starter plate likely did not retain this welded chain position with all the additional items and modifications that occurred.

If you haven't seen Vince's excellent Smugmug pictures, here's the link for the Bovington Tiger series, http://vincesgallery.smugmug.com/Histor ... 1602_NUvRz

Phil Woollard · Post by **Phil Woollard** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:35 am

I've seen a photo of a JT being started with the crank handle, this all happens under the rh exhaust armour through a hole in the rear plate and then onto the spiggoty thing offset to the right rear of the engine, so how is the starter plate used on the Tiger1? Kents pics help a bit is there no photographic evidence of the crank being used on a T1

Andrea Daviero · Post by **Andrea Daviero** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:01 am

This is a late type of starter plate, it have a back compatibility with the Hl 210 engines (see the 2 threated holes).
The small hole above the left big hole is the position when the late adapter (with an handle) was inserted.
The back of the late type starter plate is different from the erarly, on early starter plates the back of it was welded to the hose adapter, but on the late tigers you can see that 2 bolts retains the adapter hose.
This adapter is what retains the plate in position when inserted:
http://vincesgallery.smugmug.com/Histor ... 1245_VZVzJ

This is inside the tank, the dark part is the armoured cover. The cover viewed from outside is the round cap between the 2 exhausts, just above the hook.
http://vincesgallery.smugmug.com/Histor ... 2335_Pxpvt
Here you can see how it is the back of the starter plate:
http://vincesgallery.smugmug.com/Histor ... 2333_2WFU8
The rear part have the right shape to fit exactly the hole. as seen on the saumur tiger.
Behind the starter plate there are also 2 teeth (one is visible in the Vince Abbott bovington's tiger pictures) that locks the plate orizontally when fitted.
Time ago I made a little video of my tiger hand started (simulation obviously).
There is the missing step about the adapter tool that must engage the flywheel to crank the engine, I was not able to do it because I used only one hand to do it (the other was making the video).

In this video you can ear the flywheel accelerating, and then the mechanic goes to engage the wheel to the engine. On the tiger was the same.

Phil Woollard · Post by **Phil Woollard** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:22 am

Thanx for that Andrea, can you copy the utube url again as the link dont work regards Phil

Andrea Daviero · Post by **Andrea Daviero** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:48 am

That is my model,
And this is the king Tiger starting:

Sorry, I missed the correct links in my previous post.

Kent Wiik · Post by **Kent Wiik** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:39 am

Rich Stinchcomb wrote:It is interesting that David mentions a retaining chain but doesn't show it's location. I'll have to look at period pictures a little closer and see if the chain is visible.

Hi Rich and Andrea, interesting topic this one.
And thanks Andrea for that nice video of yours, very interesting.

I have not seen any chain in any ww2 photo but I donâ€™t exclude they might existed as a field mod made by crews loosing that tiny but well needed items once to often

Look here how the starter plate looked like on a brand new Late Tiger I just about to leave the factory:

No chain visible.

Kind regards
Kent

Andrea Daviero · Post by **Andrea Daviero** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:49 am

The chain is not storically correct, it is a little "permission"

I need the little bar at the end of the chain it to lock/unlock the starter plate from its storage.
I cannot find the picture (probably was on the tige1.co.uk site) or on one of my cds, but the starter plate was not fixed by the bolts on the rear hull, it have 2 adapters that rotates of about 90 degrees to lock them in position. You need the hex key to rotate the rod to unlock/lock it, but in my case I must use the tool on the chain to do it.
I must search my pictures and see if I could share them.

Andrea Daviero · Post by **Andrea Daviero** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:00 pm

Just as a preview before I find my documentation, here you can see inside the support of my starter plate, and also the hooks are visible from the starter plate, it was still a work in progress:

This is how my hooks works (ms paint sorry, descriptions are in italian)

Kent Wiik · Post by **Kent Wiik** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:06 pm

Hi Andrea,

Nice work on your starter plate

Here is the link to Davidâ€™s site:
http://tiger1.info/EN/StarterAdapter.html

Kind regards
Kent

Andrea Daviero · Post by **Andrea Daviero** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:31 pm

Kent Wiik wrote:Hi Andrea,

Nice work on your starter plate

Here is the link to Davidâ€™s site:
http://tiger1.info/EN/StarterAdapter.html

Kind regards
Kent

Thanks! Yes, most of the pictures/drawings were from tiger1.info!

Rich Stinchcomb · Post by **Rich Stinchcomb** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:00 pm

Andrea

Your starter plate and mounting hooks are very nice. Very cool to have the option of showing the tank without the plate mounted and still see the detail of the two mount tubes.

Cheers
Rich