Benedini sounds

[John Wiggins]

Hi
I have a question for Stephen or anyone in the 'know'.
When the shell case is ejected from the breech, after firing the gun, where does it drop to? Excuse my ignorance, having never been inside the turret of a tank, especially when firing, does the shell case drop onto the floor. If it does then I will simulate the sound of brass case dropping onto metal?
Breech sounds, especially the opening of the breech. Is this loud, does the loader open the breech as soon has the recoil has stopped?
The only experience I have is the opening of the bolt on a Lee Enfield Mk4. Could I alter the pitch of the rifle sound to simulate the opening of the breech on a firefly?
If anyone has acess to any of the machines at Bovington, I would very much like to record the operations inside the turret.
I am a 'friend' of the Tank museum, and I will be visiting in September. Who would I need to speak to, to do some sound recording?
Regards
John

[Stephen White]

John

To answer your questions:

- The breech on most tank guns shuts authomatically as the loader loads the next round. Some, like the 76mm on Saladin and CVR(T) were specially designed to catch his fingers unless he a. used a fist instead of extended fingers and b. was very quick. The sound is a loud metallic clang.

Guns with fixed brass shell cased invariably eject the spent case back into the turret. On some like the Pz III you can see a spent case basket, designed to catch the rounds, although it all too quickly fills up and jams if it isn't cleared. On others, they just came winging back into the turret and fell to the floor. During a pause in the action, the loader would try to clear them, usually by heaving them out of his hatch. If he didn't, there is a danger that a case will become trapped in the traverse with dire consequences. Some vehicles, including the early Cents and the Panther, had a small round hatch in the turret wall for the purpose. Most current generation tanks have combustible cases and all you get back at most is a stub case or the vent tube.

I was also interested in the other topic re Mark's decision not to offer the blamk firer. I can appreciate that for some, the sound and smell of powder is as near as you can get in simulating gun sound. But for me, the operative word is simulating, because that's what we're doing with our models. The blank firer sounds just what it is, a low velocity charge. It sounds nothing like a real tank gun firing. I do believe Mark has made the right decision. A sound recording, played through a quality sound system gets much closer to replicating the real thing, particularly if it also opens up the option for recoil and flash, although I have reservations about the latter. The other two consequences of firing, smoke and platform rock are probably more difficult but I'm sure the collective wisdom on this forum will crack those one day.

All the best.

Stephen

[Denny Patterson]

stephen, i know that you no doubt had your head out of the cuopla, !!!!!!! in early cents the casing fell on the floor with a b------ great clang, i never liked the man up the top when he would shout 3 rounds gunfire !!!!! i could do it, i was both standing up in the left side as well as sitting at your feet in the right seat depending on my roll that day happy days spent at catterick and BOAR
of course i wasnt dressed in black,!!! tank dress i was in the cavalry, the crea m of the army, till i got in, then i was told it had curdelled !!!!!!!!!, also as you say there was little sound when you put the round up the breach

[Bill Riedel]

From my experiences as a tank platoon commander (circa 1968-70) in an M-60A-1, The casing was automatically ejected as the breech block opened in recoil. And, there was a loud metallic clang as the casing bounced around the steel floor. Part of the loader's job was to kick the casing down. The more rounds fired the more the build-up on the floor. When time and conditions permitted, the loader threw the casings out of the hatch to bounce and end up where the may.

The breech block open downward and as a round was loaded, a lever was tripped in the loading throat and the breech block would slam home.

[Bill Riedel]

My very old 21st Century Stuart tank has "platform rock" on firing. I paid through the nose for that first one (to me at the time, anyway) and two months later got another on clearance at Walmart for $50. I may take that one apart once I get home and see what can be adapted to my Panther.

[Tim Bowman]

Hi Everyone

Dave and Jason show the function of the restored breech block on the Littlefield Panther.



Some nice video of the real thing and the 'lurch' as it fires.


It's be nice to simulate the ground dust being kicked up as well for full effect.

Tim

[Adrian Harris]

Great videos Tim

> Dave and Jason show the function of the restored breech block

Looks like it takes all his strength to pull the breech fully open. I wonder what it's like trying to do that in the confines of the turret

Adrian.

[Denny Patterson]

:lol
: easy, you only have to do it for the first round, and it has a spring to help. the fun is closeing the breech with out a shell in it,there are two ways a right way and wrong where you could loose you fingers, it depended on how fast you reactions where i still have my fingers, the right way was the slow way and the wrong way was the fast way, tea wagon outside you did it the quick way the breech block in a cent. went side ways. the think if i remember it weight 28 lbs.,

[Roland Mann]

Hi Lee, your post is more than one year old however for me it is coming alive just now since I fitted a sound unite TBS5 last week in my eraly TIGER I. Your idea of creating a standard for the sound card related to a model is perfekt. The reason is simple : On my card I have the following sounds :

1. Reving the engine
2. Reving the engine
3. Reving the engine
4. Canon
5. MG
6. Flak
7. Voice in German Enemy sighted"
8. Voive in German. Do not know what it says.
9. Horn of a lorry
10. Probably the noise of a falling tree as you stated.
11. Same noise as 10.
12. Same noise as 10.

So I have to agree with you and even more : Who wants 2.3.6.9.10.11.12.

I was in contact to Mr. Benedini for other reasons. The 5 or 6 times knocking
when starting the sound box should be switched off for me.
The starting of teh sond box should star the engine same time. No extra signal.
The MG sound is fare to slow for a German MG with a frequence of 15 to 20 per second.

Clear answer of Mr. Benedini : No.

So I'm left with what I got and enjoy at least the sound I like to hear.

Best regards Roland

[Marcel de Groene]

Hi
I have a question for Stephen or anyone in the 'know'.
When the shell case is ejected from the breech, after firing the gun, where does it drop to? Excuse my ignorance, having never been inside the turret of a tank, especially when firing, does the shell case drop onto the floor. If it does then I will simulate the sound of brass case dropping onto metal?
Breech sounds, especially the opening of the breech. Is this loud, does the loader open the breech as soon has the recoil has stopped?
The only experience I have is the opening of the bolt on a Lee Enfield Mk4. Could I alter the pitch of the rifle sound to simulate the opening of the breech on a firefly?
If anyone has acess to any of the machines at Bovington, I would very much like to record the operations inside the turret.
I am a 'friend' of the Tank museum, and I will be visiting in September. Who would I need to speak to, to do some sound recording?
Regards
John

Hi John,

Here's a short video were it drops



Regards,

Marcel

[Marcel de Groene]

Hi Lee,

Great idea. I have been tangling with sym about the possibility of having "triggered" voices for our animatronics. I hope Sym has worked this out together with some other gadgets. Won't say too much, but Sym knows what I mean.

Regards,

Marcel