Help,Older Tiger ,stops one motor after a short run

Bernt Torgerhagen · Post by **Bernt Torgerhagen** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:42 pm

Hi, I have finished a mid Tiger from one of the earlier productions here in Norway. The problem I have are after about 75m driving, or 10min, one of my motors stops working. After a while It will continiue running as before. (must be cooling down)
Are there aney fuse in these older motion systems ? that will reset after cooling down.
A car mecanic friend says there are fuses like this in car window lifts to prevent damage. It's onley one side, the other runs fine.
I think I have an older motion pack, as I had problems connecting ewerything, ended up buying a Bendini sound system, as the old one did not work at all, also no place to plug in the smoke system, as the wiring diagram did not match the parts enclosed. Everything else works as expected. I got my tank as a untouched kit second hand.
Aney ideas on this one ?
Thanks, Bernt................

leesellars · Post by **leesellars** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:42 pm

Hello Bernt

What speed controllers are you running?

Lee

Bernt Torgerhagen · Post by **Bernt Torgerhagen** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:56 pm

Hi, Lee
I am away at work, so I can not get the details, but I'm sure it's the Electronize speedcontroller, there are also some relays ( I think) asembled outside the Electronize box before the wires go to the motor, everything was pre asembled from the factory.
Thanks for all input.
Regards ,Bernt.................

leesellars · Post by **leesellars** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:04 pm

Hello Bernt

You have the original motion pack set up with Electrolize and relays. Not the best set up. Most of the people threw them out and fitted 4QDs, a much better system as you have more control on slow turns and have generative braking. There isnt juddery movements as with the original set up.
There's no internal fuse. Just the one on the control box.
Is it blowing the fuses on the control box?
When the motor cuts out is there still power going onto the relays?
You may have a faulty relay or speed controller.

Lee

Bernt Torgerhagen · Post by **Bernt Torgerhagen** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:14 pm

Lee,
Thanks for the info, It's a while since I ran mine outside, we have 2 foot snow ! But after a while It just cut out, I dont recall if the relays did click, but after 10-15 min. things was normal again, onley on one side failed. No fuse blown.
Where can I find the new type speedcontrollers, and do you recomend getting rid of the main box with all the fuses and conections to all the other switching boxes, (also Electronize )
Regards, Bernt...........

leesellars · Post by **leesellars** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:34 pm

Hello Bernt

I would strongly recomend changeing the system.
Now you can go down the 4QD route and you only change the two speed controllers. You want 40amp units 24vdc
Or get the complete new system from Armortek consisting of
1 control Switch box
1 main speed control box
1 Aux control Box
Now with changeing both you will get a better ride all together and the tank will be completely different. The upgrades Armortek system is a very good operating system and you can even but your benedini sound card in the sound unit if you have that aswell.
It all depends on funds in the end.

Lee

Bernt Torgerhagen · Post by **Bernt Torgerhagen** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:06 pm

Lee,
Thanks for the help, I will look into replasing some of the parts, I already changed the sound, and spent money for the firing unit upgrade, with new motor and magazine. So changing all may be expensive.
Perhaps just the speed controls will do.
Regards, Bernt...............

Adrian Harris · Post by **Adrian Harris** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:35 am

I don't know which model Electronize controllers you have, but from their website details of the current model, it states:

"To protect the MOSFET there are two overload protection systems. A thermistor on the printed circuit board continually measures the temperature and will turn off the output if a pre-set limit is exceeded. Likewise, the current flowing through the MOSFET's is sensed and the output turned off if a pre-set limit (approx. 45 amps at max. temperature) is exceeded"

So it does sound like it is a protection system which is stopping the motor.

If it is always the same size which stops, it might be worth taking the track off that side and making sure that all the wheels and the idler can turn easily without binding, as this would cause extra load on the controller and may be what is causing it to cut out.

It might also be worth seeing if the sprocket housing gets warm, which might occur if the drive gear is binding at all.

Adrian.

Bernt Torgerhagen · Post by **Bernt Torgerhagen** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:52 am

Hi, Adrian.
I think you are right, it seems like a protection that kiks in, and resets.
I will check out the track friction when I get back home, but I have not noticed aney different resistance when moving the tank.
Thanks for the input,
Regards, Bernt............

Fabrice Le Roux · Post by **Fabrice Le Roux** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:21 pm

Hi Bernt,

It might be worth checking that the motors were fitted with the hull support plates behind the final drive. This was a fix that Mark developed after the first batch of Tigers were built. The retrofitted plate prevents the motor twisting out of alignment with the final drive reduction gears under load. Damage and consequent binding of the reduction gears could be the cause of the ESC overloading.

I brought a second-hand early Mid Prod Tiger which had both final drive housings trashed and full of fine aluminium chippings from this problem. The presence of any metal fragments in the front of the hull could be a pointer to this, even if the support plates have been fitted. Unfortunately, just like the full size machine, any maintenance on the final drives requires removal of a good section of the running gear and is a major pain in the tailpipe!

Cheers, Fabrice

Bernt Torgerhagen · Post by **Bernt Torgerhagen** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:13 pm

Hi, Fabrice,
Thanks for the input, the upgrade with the drilling jig and rear motor mounts came with the kit, so it is incorporated. I will check the rolling friction of the tracks when I get home from work in a few weeks.
I remember I had to do som adjustment on the sprockets, to make them not rub.
Regards, Bernt..................

Steven Ford · Post by **Steven Ford** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:28 pm

My early Tiger seems to have fried its Electronise units after 20minutes use but the new Armortek items have just arrived - and very posh they look too.

Fingers crossed that this will solve the problem.

As regards track friction - I seem to remember someone saying they kept their tracks in diesel between uses. An aromatic solution! What do other people use on their tracks? Any advance on WD40?

Steve

Paul Morris · Post by **Paul Morris** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:45 am

Hi Steven.

I remember the thread about the diesel on the tracks and for a time I thought it was a good idea myself, it was however suggested by other forum mebers that any form of lubricant on the tracks no matter how thin would attract dirt particles and form a basic grinding paste! worth thinking about...I also recall in the early days we were all quite worried about track and sprocket wear, having managed to get hold of one of the original Tiger 1 's at the open day last year I can safely say there is, in my opinion no need to worry as this tank has been run and run and the tracks are still fine and so are the pins, I would go with running the tracks dry...just my opinion mate.
Cheers Paul