Code of Ethics in our Hobby.
Code of Ethics in our Hobby.
Dear Members of this Hobby.
Sorry this is a long post, but I think you all need to be aware of what can happen in a small hobby like this. If you take the time to read this I hope you will understand the reason behind the post. It is meant to help protect the work of members of this hobby and point out to buyers that you may not get what you think you are buying.
Due to past and recent situations I feel it is necessary to address a problem. Firstly I would like to explain that there are very few copyrights on the parts the craftsmen in this hobby produce as the real parts in general were made under military contracts and therefore owned by governments which in turn means owned by the people. This basically means anyone can make scaled parts of these items. There maybe some exceptions when it comes to weapons and certain vehicles. As an example the US military Jeep, one would think is copyrighted, but anyone can make a model of it. What you cannot do without a license is call it a JEEP and put the Jeep logo on it. This is why Dragon call their model a 4 x 4 Truck, they have no licensing fees to pay.
The main problem I want to cover here is the direct copying of craftsman's parts, I call it recasting as copying has a lot of possibilities. For example I copy the real things to produce in 6 scale. Recasting is when another person makes a mold using a craftsman's original part. This is an unethical practice, especially when these recast parts are sold for profit.
In general all the real craftsmen and manufactures in the hobby I know do not do this. We all make our own masters to produce the parts we sell.
If this type of thing happens it is very difficult to prove and to stop. We can only rely on the integrity of the people in the hobby. Most of the parts made cannot be copyrighted and if they could the cost in doing so far exceeds the potential profit to be made. If someone does recast parts and sell them suing is very expensive, a law suit of this nature cost around $75,000.00. A simple cease and desist letter may work.
A few things I learned from an attorney which are applicable to most manufacturing and retail.
1. Recasting of a original item is not legal, but difficult to prove. $75,000.00 law suit.
2. Copying of a design feature is illegal, even if a patent has not been registered provided you have evidence that it is your original design.
3. Using pictures of a manufactures parts and/or part numbers to sell a product that is not the manufactures original item is known as counterfeiting. This includes pictures not taken by the manufacturer if those pictures are of the manufactures parts. In big business this is investigated by the FBI, however in our small hobby it is not likely the FBI would get involved.
4. Using pictures of a manufactures parts without permission is illegal, even if these pictures are posted on public forums or the like. Pictures taken by an individual are covered by a common copyright law, the individual owns them and permission to use them is required. This even includes pictures not taken by the manufacturer if those pictures are of themanufacturers parts. The individual can at any time withdraw that permission.
I want to explain to you all what is involved in producing the 6 scale parts the craftsmen in this hobby produce. I use myself as an example.
I spend hundreds of hours researching the parts I make to produce them as near to the real thing as I can in 6 scale. I then study the item to figure out how to make it work in 6 scale if it has functional parts. Many functional parts cannot be produced in 6 scale exactly like the real one so parts have to be design to work. This can mean design features that are not in the real one, plus the part has to be designed so it can be molded. Once this is all done the masters have to be made to make molds.
Here is a series of pictures on many of the masters I have made over the years. There are over 300 pieces picture, some parts take a few minutes to make, others several days. The pictures do not show all the masters I have made.
Masters for white metal casting molds.
This picture shows white metal masters as original masters were lost in a fire.
Brass investment casting masters.
Resin and rubber casting masters for molds.
Production of photo-etched parts.
Here are few examples of the photo-etch artwork required to produce parts. Each part is researched, designed to work and assemble in 6 scale. The parts are all draw in a design program and then place in a program to be printed as camera ready artwork. Two sets of artwork is needed for each set of parts. The obverse and reverse, many parts have different designs on the front and back were half etching is required. Some of the artwork sheets can take over 24 hours to produce. I have 45 sets of artwork covering 1000's of parts, never counted them.
Pictures of photo-etching artwork.
Design features.
Many of my parts have my own design features in to make them work and to be able to mold them. These design features are owned by me and by law can not be used by others without permission.
Here is a simple design feature I built into my Tiger and Panther 'C' Shackles to make the locking bar work.
How the 'C' shackles was made...
1. A brass master was made of the overall shape. The master was then molded to make white metal castings.
2. Two metal castings were joined and machined to shape. Parts were then separated and the interior design machined.
3. Parts were then joined with the working lock bar in place.
4. The real one was a solid shackle with the lock bar fitted through a hole and bolted at the base. Hence this is my own design.
How to spot recast parts.
There are many giveaways to spot a recast part in metal or resin. Casting parting lines will not be the same and may have two casting lines if the re-caster did not clean the casting line off the original part. Fill gates will not match the original ones. Casting defects will show up in the recast part if the re-caster did not correct them. White metal shrinks about 1.5% when cast so recast will be slightly smaller than the original. Resin shrinkage is much less, between .002" and .006" in the resins I use, so harder to spot on resin parts.
Sample of Tiger 2 'U' Shackle recast part.
To make these shackles I made one brass master and cast sub-masters for production mold. One of these sub-masters had some pitting in the shackle which was reproduced in the recast part. See A in picture below.
The shackle pin was turned in aluminum and a center punch hole was punched as a drill bit guide. Production parts were cast without the pin hole. Pin hole was then drilled in production parts. The recast part clearly shows were the pin hole in the original part was filled for molding and then drill after casting, the depression you can see in the recast part hole was likely coursed by the pressure when the mold was vulcanized. You can see were the larger original hole shows on the recast and a small hole was drilled. See B in picture below.
Sample of a small 'U' shackle.
These were made for my SdKfz 250 and 222 tow ropes. They were cast in two different molds using the same master to make the molds. You can see they both have different shaped fill gates. The U shape in the shackles is not perfectly uniform on both sides. Note how the recast part matches this shape. The fill gate on the recast part does not match either of the fill gates on the original.
I hope you have found this post informative. If you want to be sure you are getting original parts buy only from the original manufacturer or a authorized dealer sanctioned by the original manufacture.
The down side to this practice is that you may be getting recast parts, but it also means the original producers of these parts are taking a profit loss which could result in going out of business in these hard times and thereby depriving the hobby of their skills. Which results in the hobby being left with the re-casters products who likely does not have the skills to produce new parts.
My final comment is as said at the beginning, any one can make these parts, but please put in the time, effort and money to make your own originals.
Regards
Mike Stannard (Toyrific)
6th Scale Icons Inc.
Sorry this is a long post, but I think you all need to be aware of what can happen in a small hobby like this. If you take the time to read this I hope you will understand the reason behind the post. It is meant to help protect the work of members of this hobby and point out to buyers that you may not get what you think you are buying.
Due to past and recent situations I feel it is necessary to address a problem. Firstly I would like to explain that there are very few copyrights on the parts the craftsmen in this hobby produce as the real parts in general were made under military contracts and therefore owned by governments which in turn means owned by the people. This basically means anyone can make scaled parts of these items. There maybe some exceptions when it comes to weapons and certain vehicles. As an example the US military Jeep, one would think is copyrighted, but anyone can make a model of it. What you cannot do without a license is call it a JEEP and put the Jeep logo on it. This is why Dragon call their model a 4 x 4 Truck, they have no licensing fees to pay.
The main problem I want to cover here is the direct copying of craftsman's parts, I call it recasting as copying has a lot of possibilities. For example I copy the real things to produce in 6 scale. Recasting is when another person makes a mold using a craftsman's original part. This is an unethical practice, especially when these recast parts are sold for profit.
In general all the real craftsmen and manufactures in the hobby I know do not do this. We all make our own masters to produce the parts we sell.
If this type of thing happens it is very difficult to prove and to stop. We can only rely on the integrity of the people in the hobby. Most of the parts made cannot be copyrighted and if they could the cost in doing so far exceeds the potential profit to be made. If someone does recast parts and sell them suing is very expensive, a law suit of this nature cost around $75,000.00. A simple cease and desist letter may work.
A few things I learned from an attorney which are applicable to most manufacturing and retail.
1. Recasting of a original item is not legal, but difficult to prove. $75,000.00 law suit.
2. Copying of a design feature is illegal, even if a patent has not been registered provided you have evidence that it is your original design.
3. Using pictures of a manufactures parts and/or part numbers to sell a product that is not the manufactures original item is known as counterfeiting. This includes pictures not taken by the manufacturer if those pictures are of the manufactures parts. In big business this is investigated by the FBI, however in our small hobby it is not likely the FBI would get involved.
4. Using pictures of a manufactures parts without permission is illegal, even if these pictures are posted on public forums or the like. Pictures taken by an individual are covered by a common copyright law, the individual owns them and permission to use them is required. This even includes pictures not taken by the manufacturer if those pictures are of themanufacturers parts. The individual can at any time withdraw that permission.
I want to explain to you all what is involved in producing the 6 scale parts the craftsmen in this hobby produce. I use myself as an example.
I spend hundreds of hours researching the parts I make to produce them as near to the real thing as I can in 6 scale. I then study the item to figure out how to make it work in 6 scale if it has functional parts. Many functional parts cannot be produced in 6 scale exactly like the real one so parts have to be design to work. This can mean design features that are not in the real one, plus the part has to be designed so it can be molded. Once this is all done the masters have to be made to make molds.
Here is a series of pictures on many of the masters I have made over the years. There are over 300 pieces picture, some parts take a few minutes to make, others several days. The pictures do not show all the masters I have made.
Masters for white metal casting molds.
This picture shows white metal masters as original masters were lost in a fire.
Brass investment casting masters.
Resin and rubber casting masters for molds.
Production of photo-etched parts.
Here are few examples of the photo-etch artwork required to produce parts. Each part is researched, designed to work and assemble in 6 scale. The parts are all draw in a design program and then place in a program to be printed as camera ready artwork. Two sets of artwork is needed for each set of parts. The obverse and reverse, many parts have different designs on the front and back were half etching is required. Some of the artwork sheets can take over 24 hours to produce. I have 45 sets of artwork covering 1000's of parts, never counted them.
Pictures of photo-etching artwork.
Design features.
Many of my parts have my own design features in to make them work and to be able to mold them. These design features are owned by me and by law can not be used by others without permission.
Here is a simple design feature I built into my Tiger and Panther 'C' Shackles to make the locking bar work.
How the 'C' shackles was made...
1. A brass master was made of the overall shape. The master was then molded to make white metal castings.
2. Two metal castings were joined and machined to shape. Parts were then separated and the interior design machined.
3. Parts were then joined with the working lock bar in place.
4. The real one was a solid shackle with the lock bar fitted through a hole and bolted at the base. Hence this is my own design.
How to spot recast parts.
There are many giveaways to spot a recast part in metal or resin. Casting parting lines will not be the same and may have two casting lines if the re-caster did not clean the casting line off the original part. Fill gates will not match the original ones. Casting defects will show up in the recast part if the re-caster did not correct them. White metal shrinks about 1.5% when cast so recast will be slightly smaller than the original. Resin shrinkage is much less, between .002" and .006" in the resins I use, so harder to spot on resin parts.
Sample of Tiger 2 'U' Shackle recast part.
To make these shackles I made one brass master and cast sub-masters for production mold. One of these sub-masters had some pitting in the shackle which was reproduced in the recast part. See A in picture below.
The shackle pin was turned in aluminum and a center punch hole was punched as a drill bit guide. Production parts were cast without the pin hole. Pin hole was then drilled in production parts. The recast part clearly shows were the pin hole in the original part was filled for molding and then drill after casting, the depression you can see in the recast part hole was likely coursed by the pressure when the mold was vulcanized. You can see were the larger original hole shows on the recast and a small hole was drilled. See B in picture below.
Sample of a small 'U' shackle.
These were made for my SdKfz 250 and 222 tow ropes. They were cast in two different molds using the same master to make the molds. You can see they both have different shaped fill gates. The U shape in the shackles is not perfectly uniform on both sides. Note how the recast part matches this shape. The fill gate on the recast part does not match either of the fill gates on the original.
I hope you have found this post informative. If you want to be sure you are getting original parts buy only from the original manufacturer or a authorized dealer sanctioned by the original manufacture.
The down side to this practice is that you may be getting recast parts, but it also means the original producers of these parts are taking a profit loss which could result in going out of business in these hard times and thereby depriving the hobby of their skills. Which results in the hobby being left with the re-casters products who likely does not have the skills to produce new parts.
My final comment is as said at the beginning, any one can make these parts, but please put in the time, effort and money to make your own originals.
Regards
Mike Stannard (Toyrific)
6th Scale Icons Inc.
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Hi Mike
It's amazing to me that in such a small community one would do such a thing for a few bucks. To me the most important part of your post is the 'buy direct' advise. There are several very skilled craftsman who we are lucky enough to have in this hobby. You of course being one of them.
Buy direct from all of them. Personally I think
this hobby is too small for 'authorized dealers' for craftsmen parts but that might just be me.
Kind regards
Tim
It's amazing to me that in such a small community one would do such a thing for a few bucks. To me the most important part of your post is the 'buy direct' advise. There are several very skilled craftsman who we are lucky enough to have in this hobby. You of course being one of them.
Buy direct from all of them. Personally I think
this hobby is too small for 'authorized dealers' for craftsmen parts but that might just be me.
Kind regards
Tim
"So long as one isn't carrying one's head under one's arm, things aren't too bad." – Erwin Rommel
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Mike
A number of your parts grace and enhance my Pz IiI. Although some of us enjoy converting metal into swarf in a vain attempt to replicate complex shapes and to bend tin likewise, there is a level of skill and design know how which is impossible to achieve without industrial tools and techniques.
So our hobby is considerably enhanced by the after-market and its valued suppliers. Yours is never going to be a high volume business and margins must be difficult to sutstain.
I applaud your sentiments and value the work of the true craftsmen with whom I've done business.
I guess there is a problem here for potential customers in knowing beforehand whether a part they may be tempted to order is likely to be a re-cast. You might wnt to give some thought to that - maybe a register of approved suppliers. That would exclude known re-casters and provide you and the customer a measure of protection.
Thanks for your thoughtful post and season's greetings.
Stephen
A number of your parts grace and enhance my Pz IiI. Although some of us enjoy converting metal into swarf in a vain attempt to replicate complex shapes and to bend tin likewise, there is a level of skill and design know how which is impossible to achieve without industrial tools and techniques.
So our hobby is considerably enhanced by the after-market and its valued suppliers. Yours is never going to be a high volume business and margins must be difficult to sutstain.
I applaud your sentiments and value the work of the true craftsmen with whom I've done business.
I guess there is a problem here for potential customers in knowing beforehand whether a part they may be tempted to order is likely to be a re-cast. You might wnt to give some thought to that - maybe a register of approved suppliers. That would exclude known re-casters and provide you and the customer a measure of protection.
Thanks for your thoughtful post and season's greetings.
Stephen
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Hi Mike,
Has to echo here always buy direct from the craftsmen, always!
Since I was one of those loosing money from "the man we don’t mention anymore" many moons ago I now always buy directly from the craftsmen.
Never faild me and will continue do so.
No need to put money in middle mans pocket?
I can also confirm Mikes willing to make as accurate items as possible.
Always a pleasure to help him as I know he listen and makes his outmost to make the best items as possible.
Kind regards
Kent
Has to echo here always buy direct from the craftsmen, always!
Since I was one of those loosing money from "the man we don’t mention anymore" many moons ago I now always buy directly from the craftsmen.
Never faild me and will continue do so.
No need to put money in middle mans pocket?
I can also confirm Mikes willing to make as accurate items as possible.
Always a pleasure to help him as I know he listen and makes his outmost to make the best items as possible.
Kind regards
Kent
It´s all in the details!
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So far as i'm concerned there's only one middle man who is based in the US so this really on concerns them. He has been taking alot of Flak on the this forum and the SAG forum too with, so far, no response. I'm with the rest of the guys on here, ONLY BUY DIRECT. Never had any problems at all and the quality of work is always A1.
I agree with Simon, for all the customers who are thinknig of buying upgrade items can we have a list of Approved Suppliers and a list of suppliers who are NOT approved. Then there's no mistake or excuses.
Mike, good explanation of all the work that goes into producing your superb upgrade parts and the reason why you can't always copyright them. I'd always wondered why Dragon called the Jeep a 4 x 4 Truck
Thanks Antony
I agree with Simon, for all the customers who are thinknig of buying upgrade items can we have a list of Approved Suppliers and a list of suppliers who are NOT approved. Then there's no mistake or excuses.
Mike, good explanation of all the work that goes into producing your superb upgrade parts and the reason why you can't always copyright them. I'd always wondered why Dragon called the Jeep a 4 x 4 Truck
Thanks Antony
Nord-West KampfGruppe, 1/6th Hetzer, 1/6 Schwimmwagen, 3 x r/c 1/6th Kettenkrad, 1/6th Marder Ausf M, 1/6th Panzer II Static...the collection is growing again....
Hi Guys
I know were your coming from, I had a guy wanting info, who thought he had one of my smokers, but it turned out to be a bad copy! as it would not work properly
As Mike said, do the research and don't steal other peoples hard work. we don't spend hours in the garage or workshop for nothing!!!!!
Its like someone making copy's of Mark and Gill work.
Richie
I know were your coming from, I had a guy wanting info, who thought he had one of my smokers, but it turned out to be a bad copy! as it would not work properly
As Mike said, do the research and don't steal other peoples hard work. we don't spend hours in the garage or workshop for nothing!!!!!
Its like someone making copy's of Mark and Gill work.
Richie
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Hi Guys
Thank you all for your supportive and kind comments and all the e-mails I have received. One has to be careful what is posted in a public forum so my post had to be on a rather broad spectrum, hence no names no pack drill.
As for publishing a recommended supplier list, this is also very difficult as one never knows what might happened to companies on that list. Armotek do have a list, not easy to find unless you look. It is just a short list and very well presented. It has a disclaimer to cover Armortek in the event of problems like with the nameless guy as Kent put it.
To find the list from the home page go to Products - Partner Services - Related Products.
Regards
Mike
Thank you all for your supportive and kind comments and all the e-mails I have received. One has to be careful what is posted in a public forum so my post had to be on a rather broad spectrum, hence no names no pack drill.
As for publishing a recommended supplier list, this is also very difficult as one never knows what might happened to companies on that list. Armotek do have a list, not easy to find unless you look. It is just a short list and very well presented. It has a disclaimer to cover Armortek in the event of problems like with the nameless guy as Kent put it.
To find the list from the home page go to Products - Partner Services - Related Products.
Regards
Mike
Hi Guys
In reference to this post, if you think you may have received recast parts or parts advertise as my originals and you are concerned if they are my products, I would like to see a picture of the part. I should be able to confirm for you if they are my originals or not. The picture needs to be a close of the part showing fill gates and casting lines.
My part numbers are unique in this hobby, with over 200 product I am not listing them all, but they all start in general with a letter prefix followed by numerals. Here are samples.
Tiger Series
TT01-01 to TT42 (TT## or TT##-##) some will have a suffix of K which donates a Kit.
Other suffixes are M = Metal, W = Wood, R = Resin. In general A, B, C etc. equals same part but different configurations. Example TT03A Tiger 1 Tow Rope - TT03C Tiger 2 Tow Ropes.
Panther Series
PAN01 to PAN28 (PAN##) plus K on some items. Exceptions PAN01-10, PAN01-08, PAN01BG
Panzer II Series
PZIIT001 to PZIIT12 (Several parts not in production at this time)
Panzer III Series
PZIIIT01 to PZIIIT31 (PZIIIT##) plus K on some items.
STUG3T01 & STUG3T02
Panzer IV Series
PZIVT001 to PZIVT029 (PZIVT###) plus K on some items.
General AFV Series. These are parts that are common to many AFV’s
GENT001 to GENT035 (GENT###) plus K on some items.
SdKfz 250 and 222 Series
SD250-01 to SD250-25 (SD250-##) plus K on some items.
SD222-01 & SD222-02
ID Flags
IDF01 to IDF04
Flak 38 Trailer
SDAH51A to SDAH51 -03
E-mail pictures please, do not post them here.
Regards
Mike
In reference to this post, if you think you may have received recast parts or parts advertise as my originals and you are concerned if they are my products, I would like to see a picture of the part. I should be able to confirm for you if they are my originals or not. The picture needs to be a close of the part showing fill gates and casting lines.
My part numbers are unique in this hobby, with over 200 product I am not listing them all, but they all start in general with a letter prefix followed by numerals. Here are samples.
Tiger Series
TT01-01 to TT42 (TT## or TT##-##) some will have a suffix of K which donates a Kit.
Other suffixes are M = Metal, W = Wood, R = Resin. In general A, B, C etc. equals same part but different configurations. Example TT03A Tiger 1 Tow Rope - TT03C Tiger 2 Tow Ropes.
Panther Series
PAN01 to PAN28 (PAN##) plus K on some items. Exceptions PAN01-10, PAN01-08, PAN01BG
Panzer II Series
PZIIT001 to PZIIT12 (Several parts not in production at this time)
Panzer III Series
PZIIIT01 to PZIIIT31 (PZIIIT##) plus K on some items.
STUG3T01 & STUG3T02
Panzer IV Series
PZIVT001 to PZIVT029 (PZIVT###) plus K on some items.
General AFV Series. These are parts that are common to many AFV’s
GENT001 to GENT035 (GENT###) plus K on some items.
SdKfz 250 and 222 Series
SD250-01 to SD250-25 (SD250-##) plus K on some items.
SD222-01 & SD222-02
ID Flags
IDF01 to IDF04
Flak 38 Trailer
SDAH51A to SDAH51 -03
E-mail pictures please, do not post them here.
Regards
Mike
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Mike, I feel bad for what happened to you and Jack.
I made a choice a long time ago to NOT get involved with him / them. Frankly, it was sort of a "no-brainer" to deal directly with you.
I am not much on other folks list, I like to police myself. But, maybe an effort to remove weblinks "to" and make an effort to distance them from the our forums would be a good step to protect the newbies and hobby in general - I will leave that up to others.
I made a choice a long time ago to NOT get involved with him / them. Frankly, it was sort of a "no-brainer" to deal directly with you.
I am not much on other folks list, I like to police myself. But, maybe an effort to remove weblinks "to" and make an effort to distance them from the our forums would be a good step to protect the newbies and hobby in general - I will leave that up to others.
Thanks,
Jim
Jim
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Hi fellas.
I have to agree with 90% of what has been said above, its a great shame when people invest their time let alone money in making something only to have it ripped off by someone else.
I used to make a lot of resin extras for 1/16 scale and was doing rather nicely for quite a while, then one weekend the same items made from plaster appeared and some were direct copies as Mike has experienced of masters I had made myself! in the end I just stopped as the resin could not compete with the plaster parts as far a cost was concerned so I just sold off all my moulds, I did not bother trying when I got into the 1/6 scale as we already have a great supplier in the form of Dave
Going back to Mikes post though you do not have to look very far to find people who are quite happy to stand on other peoples shoulders and take the benefit and glory of others hard work and technical knowledge and claim it to be their own, I think its just the way of the world nowadays and the general attitude of some people to show no regard for others at all.
Its a sad thing but with all our good intentions towards each other and all the respectful comments above, none of it will stop these things happening again next week next month or next year.
Just my opinion sorry if its not so rosey, then again as Simon and the others have said if we stick to the main suppliers the ones we all know to be have been around for some time and above reproach we should not go far wrong.
Cheers Paul
I have to agree with 90% of what has been said above, its a great shame when people invest their time let alone money in making something only to have it ripped off by someone else.
I used to make a lot of resin extras for 1/16 scale and was doing rather nicely for quite a while, then one weekend the same items made from plaster appeared and some were direct copies as Mike has experienced of masters I had made myself! in the end I just stopped as the resin could not compete with the plaster parts as far a cost was concerned so I just sold off all my moulds, I did not bother trying when I got into the 1/6 scale as we already have a great supplier in the form of Dave
Going back to Mikes post though you do not have to look very far to find people who are quite happy to stand on other peoples shoulders and take the benefit and glory of others hard work and technical knowledge and claim it to be their own, I think its just the way of the world nowadays and the general attitude of some people to show no regard for others at all.
Its a sad thing but with all our good intentions towards each other and all the respectful comments above, none of it will stop these things happening again next week next month or next year.
Just my opinion sorry if its not so rosey, then again as Simon and the others have said if we stick to the main suppliers the ones we all know to be have been around for some time and above reproach we should not go far wrong.
Cheers Paul
Last edited by Paul Morris on Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Paul's Tank Workshop. Complete Tank builds and re builds zimmerit and paint to museum quality standard. pjtigerman@aol.com
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01524 720977
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Hi Guys
First I would like to thank Mark and Gill for allowing this post to continue. I apologies to them and all members for using this forum to bring this rather distasteful subject to light, but it was the only way I could inform the hobby as a whole about it. I would also like to thank again all members for the supportive, kind comments and e-mails.
It was early October that I became aware of the problem and the last two and a half months have been rather stressful to say the least. It has taken me away from my workshop for many hours and reduced my already valuable time to complete projects and fill orders, I have managed to ship 64 orders during this time, but have been unable to complete projects I had hope to do by the end of this year. I am posting a update on these projects in the Craftsman’s Market.
I have had several expensive visits with an attorney to figure out what to do and stay on the legal side of things, however the problem is still not resolved. It looks like it may have been going on for eighteen months or more.
Quote from a e-mail received from a long time customer.
“But what you said about copying your parts is true because he mentioned to me he was having parts copied from a dealer he was doing business with. He was looking for some one to copy parts and make several duplicates this must have been you he was talking about .â€
First I would like to thank Mark and Gill for allowing this post to continue. I apologies to them and all members for using this forum to bring this rather distasteful subject to light, but it was the only way I could inform the hobby as a whole about it. I would also like to thank again all members for the supportive, kind comments and e-mails.
It was early October that I became aware of the problem and the last two and a half months have been rather stressful to say the least. It has taken me away from my workshop for many hours and reduced my already valuable time to complete projects and fill orders, I have managed to ship 64 orders during this time, but have been unable to complete projects I had hope to do by the end of this year. I am posting a update on these projects in the Craftsman’s Market.
I have had several expensive visits with an attorney to figure out what to do and stay on the legal side of things, however the problem is still not resolved. It looks like it may have been going on for eighteen months or more.
Quote from a e-mail received from a long time customer.
“But what you said about copying your parts is true because he mentioned to me he was having parts copied from a dealer he was doing business with. He was looking for some one to copy parts and make several duplicates this must have been you he was talking about .â€
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- Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:01 am
- Location: Grafton, OH - USA