Recoil Unit For Tiger

Mike Cooper · Post by **Mike Cooper** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:36 am

Does anybody out there know of a company/person that produces a gun recoil unit for the Tiger (Late production) and is it possible to synchronize this unit up to Armortek's blank firing device.

Post by **Armortek** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:44 am

Mike

Here in the UK the design approval of the firing unit specifically requires that the gun barrel is fixed rigidly to the firing unit. This is in order to prevent any failure of a recoil mechanism result in the barrel being ejected at high speed. We tested the argument by firing the unit in a Panther with the barrel not screwed firmly home. The barrel was fired about 40feet from the tank at some speed. We do ask customer to sign a declaration that they will not modify the unit for this reason. You do have a little more license in the US with firearms regulations, but I would urge you very strongly to ensure that any recoil device was built very substantially and thoroughly tested. Of course, as manufacturers we are duty bound to advise you against it.

Mark

Martin Cohen · Post by **Martin Cohen** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:19 pm

I think its because in the USA even the kids can get real guns that no one here would be concerned about the well engineered modifying of a blank firing unit so that it could recoil too

And while I do appreciate the official party line and the reasons for it by Armortek, if someone were to come up with a reliable and truly safe recoil mod then I'd be on it like white on rice.

I am no expert at this, but for the sake of conversation I speculate the problems to be overcome would include:

1. preventing the firing unit in the turret from moving in a way so that it accidentally shakes things apart. Making the barrel sections alone retract into a sleeve within the turret might keep the firing unit static.

2. space for the hardware and interior clearance for the mechanism, especially if firing with the gun while elevated.

3. ease of cleaning and maintenance.

4. having the barrel sections move timely and in proper sequence.

5. making it appear realistic in its speed of movement while retracting and returning; looking at videos of the real thing it seemed to go pretty quickly.

I wonder if with Armortek's benefit of several years experience with the Firing Unit, and with improving technologies (servos, control boards, etc.) would Armortek revisit the idea of coming up with a second generation Firing Unit that also provides recoil? Is this a matter of technology limits? Or is this about negotiating the legal approval hurdles in the UK?

Or, ':idea:' maybe this set could be made in the USA. I'm sure the NRA (Nat'l. Rifle Association) would back my right to bear armed Tiger Tanks.

For me anything that makes the Tiger appear and behave more realistically gets the nod.

Tim Bowman · Post by **Tim Bowman** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:07 pm

Martin Cohen wrote:I think its because in the USA even the kids can get real guns

Martin,

I don't mean to be stickler on the subject and I'm sure your comment was ment in jest but actually there are laws against that here. The following classes of people are ineligible to possess, receive, ship, or transport firearms or ammunition in the United States.

-Persons less than 18 years of age for the purchase of a shotgun or rifle.
-Persons less than 21 years of age for the purchase of a firearm that is other than a shotgun or rifle.

That being said, I really like the idea of a recoil system for the Tiger!

Kind regards

Tim

Martin Cohen · Post by **Martin Cohen** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:40 pm

Yes, I was having a spot of fun and I do understand the laws having a FFL for my company in fact. What I meant to convey was that if one observes the appalling frequency of gun violence in the USA, and the recent 'history of their innovative uses' in the USA

, then firearms laws would appear to be taken as mere suggestions by many.

Nontheless, I will give up my Tiger I with its (hopefully recoiling) Firing System when they can pry it from my cold, dead fingers......

Mike Gormley · Post by **Mike Gormley** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:57 pm

A recoil system would be nice for the Sherman too.

Mike

ChrisWilliams · Post by **ChrisWilliams** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:43 pm

Im sure it would be possible it fit a recoil unit if like the Tamiya kits a sound unit with the main gun firing was used. I can understand that it may not look as good as a blank going off but with the right mounting of a speaker in a box the correct volume Im sure could be created.
Just my thoughts.

Allan Richards · Post by **Allan Richards** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:15 am

Chris / Mike,

It is quite easy to fit a simple recoil system to the Tiger and Sherman. I've used a GWS sail winch servo which rotates about 370 degrees on the non proportional channel on my Futaba 6EXA. By attaching a simple crank mechanism to the servo the gun barrel will move in and out and it does look ok. I know in reality the gun should move in quickly and recover more slowly, but to emulate that movement would be more complicated. I don't think that the servo would be up to moving the heavy blank firing unit if you wanted to fit that. There are some pictures in my old gallery.

richie wignall · Post by **richie wignall** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:16 pm

hi guys
i have the same as allan's, thanks allan for the advice

i have now fitted a 8mm blank firer nice affect, smoke ect, just need to sort out the timing now, but as allan said the winch servo was on the limit with the blank firer, so i went onto a 1/4th servo, plenty of gutts, if not to much

thanks again allan

Martin Cohen · Post by **Martin Cohen** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:02 am

I have Pete Fertl's barrel with the Armortek Firing Unit. Would either of you see some way to make this work with the setup I describe?

Allan Richards · Post by **Allan Richards** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:59 am

Martin,

I've never played with the Armortek firing unit or one of Pete's barrels, so I cannot help on that. Richie may be the better person for the more powerful servo as a start.

Mike Gormley · Post by **Mike Gormley** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:52 pm

Allan,

I will have to look into that setup for my Sherman

Mike

richie wignall · Post by **richie wignall** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:49 pm

hi guys
the 1/4 scale servo,s ok, plenty of gutts, poss to much

the down side it uses alot more power

hows things allan.
hope your keeping ok.
richie

Allan Richards · Post by **Allan Richards** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:23 am

Richie,

Thinfs are ok at present but I've been a little quiet on the model front. The Tiger hasn't been out for weeks, but is fully sorted and operational now. I've been building the Sherman slow time and currently making the aircleaners for the rear hull plate on my Firefly conversion.

A few weeks ago I bought a PCP air rifle and started field shooting so that has been taking my interest at the moment.

richie wignall · Post by **richie wignall** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:40 pm

hi allan
shooting! i havent been shooting for ages, i use to to loads of it , just not got the time, was meant to be moveing this fri, but more problems, i,v been sold since feb! just problems one after the other with the one we are going for

tanks all packed up ready, not worked on it for ages now, only to top batts up. just got my self an r c helicopter

wife has,nt found it yet

flying it is dam yard

when she finds out i be in the dog house

glad your keeping ok
richie