Dunkelgelb source

[Vince Cutajar]

I feel your pain. Been there and done that.

It seems that each manufacturer of model colours have their own version of what Dunkelgelb should look like. Sometimes more than one version.

AK Real Colors has four versions:

Dunkelgelb Nach Munster-Dark Yellow (https://www.scalemates.com/colors/ak-re ... att--13172#)

Dunkelgelb - Dark Yellow RAL7028 (https://www.scalemates.com/colors/ak-re ... att--13173)

Dunkelgelb Ausgabe 44 - Dark Yellow RAL7028 Ver.'44 (https://www.scalemates.com/colors/ak-re ... att--13174)

Dunkelgelb - Dark Yellow (Variant) (https://www.scalemates.com/colors/ak-re ... att--13175)

Vince

[Ray Massa]

I feel your pain. Been there and done that.

It seems that each manufacturer of model colours have their own version of what Dunkelgelb should look like. Sometimes more than one version.

Vince

Thanks Vince. I just found those color samples last night as well. The cans are only 50% larger than Tamiya and twice the price, so as far as being any more economical, they would not be but they do offer some choices. It is not so much as the cost as it is the principle of Tamiya paints being so expensive in such small cans. We spend thousands on the tank, so a couple hundred more on paint isn't a deal breaker, but would like to find a base color I am happy with.

I am trying one more color from Vallejo called Dessert Yellow. Will follow up here to show the results when it comes in. I went through the same thing when I was looking for an Olive Drab for my M26.

-Ray

[Stephen White]

Ray, if you haven't found them, I've written a couple of threads on Dunkelgelb and its challenges.

This one talks specifically about Dunkelgelb:

viewtopic.php?p=57274&hilit=dunklegelb#p57274

This one talks more generally about colour and colour theory.

viewtopic.php?t=8182

I had to do the research for my Pz III, although in the end it didn't require Dunkelgelb as the original was probably painted in the later desert camouflage introduced for Tunisia, RAL 8020 and RAL 7027.

Hope you find them useful. Although Tamiya paints are convenient, they can vary considerably from the original colour and can vary between batches. On the other hand, it's pointless to get too wrapped up about colour as the effects of operating the vehicle would have altered the appearance of the base colour anyway.

There are lots of manufacturers out there pretending to supply "accurate" model paint to authentic hues but very few of them are really close to the original chips and with Wehrmacht colours, it's particularly difficult as the original colour chips are kept very much under wraps by those few collectors who have them. It's also complicated by the way in which Wehrmacht paint evolved. There were at least four variants of Dunkelgelb for example.

If I had to make a choice again, I'd still choose Lifecolor paints. They are the closest to accurate from my research.

https://graphicair.co.uk/product-catego ... asic-matt/

If you want the convenience of rattle cans, the choice is limited. There is a view that small pots of paint applied with an airbrush is a very expensive option. I have always been surprised though by how few pots I've needed to cover big models. The airbrush, if properly used and with a suitable primer substrate, is actually the most effective and economical way of painting our models.

Just my experience - other experiences are available...........

[Mark Heaps]

I would like to make a few comments here. Make of them what you will.
1) Colours will appear different due to the scale. Paint a life-size tank and a 1/6th model using the same paint and to the same paint scheme and they will appear different.
2) Are the original paint chips still accurate to how the paint looked at the time ? Or have they degenerated with age ? Do they depict how a surviving museum should look now or how it actually looked then ? Surely our models should depict vehicles at the time they were in action and not how they may look now in a museum somewhere.
3) What is realistic ? Is a Leopard painted pink realistic ? Is a Chieftain ARV in gloss green realistic? The pink leopard I cannot guarantee, the story I heard was that a high-ranking member of the Dutch Royal family was going to visit the Dutch tank Regiment in Hohne, Germany so they had a freshly cleaned & painted tank outside under a tarpaulin ready for her to clamber on. On pulling off the tarpauling on the morning of her visit they found that it had been painted pink. British forces were stationed on the same base so were the likely culprits for this prank. Chieftain ARV in gloss green definitely happened, I was there York Barracks, Münster, Germany, either 1987 or 1988, either C Sqn Fitter Section QRIH or D Sqn Fitter Section 14th/20th ( the regiments roulemented during this time and I am not 100% certain when exactly this incident happened ). New young arrival to the fitter section gets given the task of touching up the scratches on the ARV. Keen to make a good impression, he goes down to the stores to get green paint, stayed late and hand-painted the whole of the ARV. We walk in the following morning and have a very shiny ARV. He had not specified matt to the stores people, they knew he was new and they had a surplus of gloss green that they were wanting to get rid of.

If it looks right for you then it is right. WW2 finished 78 years ago. Are you likely to bump into a veteran who crewed a Panther who would tell you you were wrong in your choice of shade or hue ?

[Robert E Morey]

This is good paint - but currently out of stock. I contacted them and it will be re-stocked around 1st of new year. Meantime I'm tempted to try that latex house paint!

https://hessenantique.com/german-wwii-d ... ray-paint/

Bob

[Will Roberts]

Hello peeps,
I have a copy of Tomas Chory's book "Wehrmacht Heer Camouflage Colors 1939 to 1945" which although lacking in a lot of details Post 1943 does include some color chips of at least 5 Dunkelgelb variants. The one I chose for my Panther is the post 1943 colour (the original RAL 7028) which has the following Humbrol mix according to Chory 10 X Humbrol 110, 10 X Humbrol 34 and 1 X Humbrol 33. As a comparison he states that Dunkelgelb Ausgabe 1944 is similar to Humbrol 84. For those who can get paint matched you could use those as samples; I actually just use the Humbrol enamels in an airbrush for simplicity.

Kind regards,

Will.

[Ray Massa]

Thanks for all the comments and for those who sent me links to the articles on color.

All very interesting. As a former automotive/mechanical illustrator 30 years ago, I am familiar with color, and how it reacts to surrounding colors.
At this point, I’m not looking for an exact Dunkelgelb anymore. I really just want something that’s close to a dark yellow that I can live with. Not even sure of the camo style yet but I did want a yellow base.

So I will await for the new can of spray paint that I’ve ordered and see what it looks like. As I mentioned before, I will post a sample of it so maybe it helps others.

-Ray

[Jerry Carducci]

I'm trying to convince my friend the paint guru to make more of the dark yellow I use and possibly convince the company he consults with to market this color for those of us who need it. It isn't perfect either but I like it and if need be we can tweak it a bit. Used with the hardener it's he last paint you'll ever need to coat your model with.

I've seen some renderings of the RAL7028 that are nearly tan and while I'm no paint expert based on everything I've seen at best that is one extreme of the range of a color where almost anything goes. Nothing like declaring one knows "the Truth" regarding the exact color rendering of RAL7028; some would resort to fisticuffs over it. To me one can almost justify anything.

Has anyone reached out to any of the well known full sized vehicle restorers/collectors of German vehicles like Wheatcroft to find out what they use?
I recall asking Keith at Jacques Littlefield's place and Jacques himself about the yellow specifically and they'd said that it was a water based paint made specifically for them but the maker's name has been lost in the fog of memory... At the time I was using and perfectly content with Chevron- "Perfect" (https://web.archive.org/web/20040610003 ... paint.com/) paint - their dark yellow was perfect for me and alcohol fuel resistant so I didn't feel the need for an alternate supplier.

When Chevron/Perfect went out of business I scurried to find another resistant paint source and found Klaskote : https://www.klasskote.com/ They do make a dark yellow for armor; I have some but I intended it for my fuel models as it is a 2 part curing paint. Not inexpensive. Now the paint my friend makes me when used with the hardener will serve the same purpose as Klasskote.

Jerry

[Ray Massa]

Jerry,

And I thought I was the only one having problems with dark yellow! Seems like our allies in the UK have a couple of good sources though.

-Ray

[Will Roberts]

Hi Peeps,

For those that haven't seen this video. It is David Willey explaining where they got their Dunkelgelb from for their Tiger II and Jagdtiger. It looks more like Dunkelgelb nach Munster to me rather than RAL 7028 which many people see as a more washed out grey colour. Certainly most rattle cans are far too yellow and some are right 'orrible. FOSCO Army Paint Industrial's Dunkelgelb RAL 7028 is a good match to a late war variant RAL 7028 but not the original 1943 RAL 7028 colour. That is my view. I would also say that Tomas Chory has based his book on ORIGINAL research and the RAL 840 R register of 1939 1940.



One persons Dunkelgelb is another persons Grey. Don't get me started on Olive Drab or Panzer Grey.

[Ray Massa]

Will,

Great video. Very helpful. Thanks for posting.

-Ray

[Michael Allen]

Ray

I’m clearly no expert but I have been painting my KT with the FOSCO army paint RAL 7028 and I’m very pleased with it, will send pics if you are interested.

Mick

[Charles A Stewart]

Hi guys.

I hope to suggest this small input does not offend.

At the end of the day a small "touch up" spray unit really does work.

I, like a few guys here wait for the clear dry spring days, patience is vital believe me.

Regarding RAL 7028;-

I posted this a while back, I hope this helps:-
1/ Tamiya, TS3
2/ Humbrol (authentic), Hp1.**
3/ Chory, Humbrol 84**

** I had these made locally at 1ltr. each.

4/ Army paint, I am using it to no smaller part/accessories.

There is plenty of scope out there and if you are going to weather it

As always take care

Charles

[Ray Massa]

Ray

I’m clearly no expert but I have been painting my KT with the FOSCO army paint RAL 7028 and I’m very pleased with it, will send pics if you are interested.

Mick

Just not available in the states, from what I could find.

-Ray

[Ray Massa]

Here is the new color from Vallejo I just received compared to the others shown earlier.

The top one is the new Vallejo Dessert Yellow (VLJ28015). (400ml can for about $12)
The right is Tamiya TS-3 Dark Yellow (100ml can for around $6)
The left is Vallejo Dunkelgelb Panzer Yellow (400ml can for about $12)

I realize your monitor may not represent the colors accurately, but you will get a sense of the hue. On my 27" iMac screen they look very very close to the real thing. All are painted on top of red oxide primer.

This may help others who may be looking for some type of Dunkelgelb that is available in the states.

-Ray

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