A Centurion for Korea

[Chris Hall]

This is a thread I've wanted to write for some time, and I'm finally in a position to do so.

I'd been aware of Armortek for years before I finally entered the asylum , but the first model that really caught my attention was Centurion, back in 2011/12. I remember that Bovington offered an Armortek kit as a competition prize, which I entered - does anyone know who won it ? While finally joining up and developing other interests (whick I've written about ad nauseam elsewhere ) the Centurion always ticked away in the back of my mind, especially when I developed a passion for the Korean War 1950-53.

And then, back in March, Adrian Harris told me that one had come up for sale on the Gumtree website, and kindly allowed me first bite of the cherry. It was actually one I'd seen before, and expressed interest in, but a deal couldn't be agreed and it went elsewhere. And now it had popped up again. So a phone call was made, a deal was agreed ...... and then the long lockdown wait started until I was allowed to go and collect it, which finally happened on 29 March.

Details. It's No. 20, complete with certificate, all the instruction books, Futaba 7C Tx, battery charger, a box of bits like track links etc., a few books and even a couple of dollies. I'm the 4th owner, but I don't think there are many miles on the clock. The build is tidy, straight out of the box, painted green but with no identity. The batteries were the original 2 x 12v lead acids, and were very tired - good enough to load and unload from the Range Rover, and a circuit around the garden, but that was about it.

And, as a picture paints a thousand words, here she is as she was in 2014, but largely unchanged today:

So, another project ! Not a huge one, as she's (all tanks are female, aren't they ? Even some of the WW1 Males had female names ) built and running, so we're largely talking about servicing and an identity. The plan is:

1. Swap out the old batteries for a shiny new 24v LiFePo4 - already done !

2. (The Big One) Retro it down from a Mark 5/2 to a Mark 3, as used in Korea and West Germany in the early 1950's. I'm still trawling through the books* for the fine details, but the key feature is the main gun, which was a 20-pdr Type A. More on that in a future post.

3. An identity. This is the easy one. C Squadron, 8th Kings Royal Irish Hussars, which fought at the Battle of the Imjin (Solma-Ri), 23-25 April 1951. Their role at that battle was both fascinating and crucial, and well worth studying as an excellent example of sheer bravery and excellent armoured tactics. Again, more details in due course.

4. A complete paint job. I've always believed that post-WW2 British tanks were Deep Bronze Green - full stop. I think tanks look great in shiny dark green, although I know others disagree with me ! But history can be a cruel and unrelenting mistress - the Official Order was that all vehicles shipped out to Korea were to be repainted in the old late WW2 SCC15 Olive Drab. So that's a given, then.

I'd like to get it into a state where I can bring it to Tankfest, along with my Quad, limber and 25-pdr, to establish 'Korea Corner' . The 'Cold War Gets Hot' theme needs developing, and makes a welcome change from the serried ranks of the Panzerwaffe .

One final thing. I put a little * next to 'books' to remind me to say a special thanks to Kevin Hunter, who sent me his spare copy of the WPP book and refused to take payment for it. Kevin - if you ever make it to the mainland, there's at least a Bovvy Breakfast in it for you . Isn't our little fraternity wonderful ?

Best wishes, and stay well,

Chris

[Kevin Hunter]

I've been looking forward to this thread since I first learned it was in the offing......

Enough already with the thanks for the book, you'll make me blush. I had 2 copies, only needed 1.
Besides, the deal was a pint....... eatin's cheatin'

All the best
Kevin

[Michael Cecil]

Interesting project, Chris, with some major and many minor changes needed to replicate a Mk.3 of Korean War configuration.

Will you modify the loader's hatch position to the early type aligned at an angle to the turret side (see image below)? It was changed in production in late 1950 to the more common alignment parallel to the turret side.

The list could be long depending upon the level of detail you are aiming for:
Wireless: WS No.19 Mk.3 and WS No.88 AFV
Tow rope: different rear stowage point shape and the rope linkage design incorporated a hook
Coax: Besa 7.92mm with a conical flash suppressor
Mantlet cover: a complete cover with no large aperture for the RMG or co-axial browning, and quite generous in terms of the canvas used
20-pdr Type A barrel with the corresponding design of rubber buffers around the engine compartment
Track link stowage on the turret rear, and a water jerrycan holder, no stowage basket
Escape hatch in the rear of the turret (Mk 2, early pattern Mk.3, and Mk.2 upgraded to Mk.3)
Exhaust extensions were straight, not angled
2 inch bomb thrower and loader's periscope on the turret roof (see image below)
No mounts for a commander's MG, and no stowage mounts for the commander's MG across the rear turret roof.

I've also seen images of what appears to be a cable breaker mounted on the forward edge of the turret on Korean Cents: not sure of the date or unit, though.

And not forgetting the big white star painted on the side plates!

Mike
Early Mk.3 turret - this is actually a Mk.2 tank upgraded to Mk.3.

Details-557-early turret top-2 small.jpg (51.36 KiB) Viewed 4298 times

[Chris Hall]

Mike -

Apologies for not replying to this earlier (I blame pressure of Real Life work, but that's really just an excuse ). It's an excellent reference list, that I've printed off and will add to my file. Many thanks.

As to whether I can do much of it .......... well, in the wise words of St. Clint of Eastwood "A man's got to be aware of his limitations" . Some of your list I'd already picked up on, like the Besa (obtained), mantlet cover (I'll be seeking my wife's help for that !), the jerrycan (obtained) and turret track links (already on). Other things I'm going to have a go at, via the wonders of CAD and 3D printing (which I'm still trying to get my head around) are the barrel counterweight (measured at Bovington) which replaces the fume extractor half way down the barrel, the different pattern of ridges on the stowage bins, the grab handles on the bazooka plates, the Vane Sight (which I'm not sure was used much, with greater reliance being placed on the Mark 1 Eyeball) and the storage box on the glacis plate for the driver's windshield. But playing about with the loader's hatch is way beyond my skill set .

But the main difference will be visual. The colour will be SCC15 (as ordered about 3 days before sailing !), big while stars (of course !), 29th Infantry Brigade markings, and an individual tank identifier. I also intend to do the chalk re-embarkation markings on the side plates (Centurion 3 was on the Top Secret list, and the Army was so scared of losing one to the North Koreans, and hence Russia and China, that they seriously considered shipping them straight home again ! Luckily common sense prevailed). And a couple of crew (possibly one animatronic), wearing US cold weather gear (as usual the MOD didn't think to supply it, so it was 'obtained' by trading with Scotch as the US Army was 'dry'). As they're 8KRIH, dark blue berets are on their way, along with Tony Barton's excellent cap badges.

Hopefully, the visual impact of that lot will disguise the fact that it's mainly a dressed-down Mark 5 ! My aim, as usual, is to shine a light on a neglected or forgotten area of tank history.

As the Cent is currently my only runner I took it along to the 'Wings and Wheels' show at the Museum of Army Flying yesterday (thanks to Adrian Harris). A great show, with a good running area, and plenty of interest from the Public. And, just for a change, the Panzerwaffe was massively outnumbered by the Allies ! It made me appreciate just how good the Cent is so, as my job is part-time and I don't get back to it until October I'm keen to crack on with the Cent over the summer. Watch this space.

Best wishes,

Chris

[Michael Cecil]

I'm sure with all those changes, it will look magnificent.

Looking forward to seeing the progress. In the meantime, add the following to your collection of images. Date and place (other than Korea!) unknown, but had to be somewhere the Australian infantry battalion was operating. Note what appears to be a cable-breaker or a rudimentary search light bracket above the barrel on the camouflaged Cent.

Mike

Centurion Everett Korea3.jpg (215.93 KiB) Viewed 4057 times

[Chris Hall]

Well, I've done a lot of thinking about the Korean Cent, but precious little actual action . So, with a long winter stretching ahead and the need to have it running for the 2023 season (I have the demands of our European friends to satisfy ! ) I decided the time was nigh.

I'm not aiming for a complete strip-down and rebuild, a la Phil Woollard . I just don't have the skills, or the equipment. Instead I'm going for a top-down effect, changing as many of the obvious things I can to make it more of a Mark 3, which will hopefully deflect from the things I can't. I'm also relying on the 'helicopter view' concept, where the viewing public will be looking down on it from a scale height of some 30 feet.

So the first job was to take off the turret, and strip it down. Not only does it need a repaint, but that's where the maximum number of visual changes are. It also needed some corrective work in any case - some of the original parts had been put together incorrectly, and I had been warned at purchase that the recoil didn't work very well (I quickly found out why - not only was the recoil sleeve a bit bunged up with grease, but the servo was trying to pull at an angle rather than straight through. Something for later).

This is a very large bit of cast metal !

(It was a bit of fun taking out all the electrics - I just hope they go back in OK ..... )

I then turned to Mike Cecil's wonderful check list (above), comparing it to the pictures I've managed to find. Aerial close-up shots of tanks are not common ! Fortunately (but not for them ) there is a useful top shot of a Mark 3 available - 4 Bravo, which went over a crest at the Imjin and spiked its barrel. The crew were captured, but the tank was dug out and recovered after the battle:

Sgt. Holberton's bus

4 Bravo Imjin (2) (2).png (554.45 KiB) Viewed 3508 times

So it's all coming together. The loader's periscope on the front of the turret needed to be removed - fortunately some gentle persuasion with a pair of mole grips broke the glue seal. The hole will be filled and sanded, and an extra tie down fitted (I've also noted the casting mark). I'm hoping to use the periscope on the 2-inch bomb thrower, which doesn't look too difficult to fabricate (he said quickly). The one thing I can't see any initial way around is re-angling the loader's hatch - I'll have to think about that one ..........

A lot of the little parts, like aerial mounts and fire extinguishers, will be sourced from Armorpax (fortunately, Korea was close enough to WW2 that stuff like radios didn't change). Other parts can be created via the magic of 3D printing. At this point it's appropriate to mention Vince Cutajar, who has been of invaluable help designing various bits for me which I could then print myself. Expect to see stunning examples of his work throughout this build.

The other obvious difference between the Mark 3 and the Mark 5 is the 20-pdr barrel. The Mark 3 used the Type A, which didn't have the fume extractor half way down but had a counterweight at the end. The profile is slightly different, but not hugely so in 1/6th, especially with a baggy mantlet cover to fit ! The two halves of the barrel need to be screwed together, filled and sanded smooth - much easier to do when it's detached from the turret !

So the game is (finally) afoot ! I'll try and keep the story going regularly. The Centurion is a lovely model, with loads of scope for amendment, and I'm keen to add to the variations on display ...........

Best wishes,

Chris

[Vince Cutajar]

Chris, you are making me blush.

Vince

[Chris Hall]

Chris, you are making me blush.

Vince

I’m batting well ! That’s you and Kevin Hunter in just one thread

[Kevin Hunter]

Looking forward to watching your progress Chris.

[Chris Hall]

It's been a long, long time since I posted any progress - Real Life just seems to have piled up on me. But the Centurion hasn't been forgotten - far from it ! Thinking it through, researching, printing 3D parts, and generally stockpiling bits and ideas. And now, finally, I have the time to put it all together ..........

I've decided to tackle the hull first, largely because there's not much to do ! The model may have been advertised as a Mark 5/2, but it bears a lot of similarities to a Mark 3, especially with regard to the exhausts. So my aim is to get the main body done quickly, then painted, and I can put it aside for the main changes, which concern the turret.

One of the things that has always caught my eye are the little handles (actually tie-downs for the camo netting) on the bazooka plates (they were still called that into the 1950's, even though the threat from a Panzerfaust had long gone ). Different nationalities had different patterns of them. But the Mark 3 in British service in 1950/51 only had 6 on each side, in a pretty straightforward pattern. So here goes ........

The plates are relatively easy to remove - just a few M3 nuts along the top, and more nuts and cap head bolts along the bottom. Then I measured up (approximately ) and started drilling. Here's the result:

Before and after

The tie-downs are, of course, from Armorpax. I've now drilled through the plates on the other side (using the first ones as a template), and the tie-downs are now glued in and drying out. It may seem a lot of fuss for such a small detail, but it's right, and will (hopefully) enhance the whole model. It's the little details which catch the eye.

Why the sudden rush ? Well, in just over 6 weeks time, I've been invited back to an event in Germany (which I did last year - see viewtopic.php?t=9215, but I flew then and I promised I'd bring a tank in 2023. I was ordered to bring the Cent !). I'm calling the trip Operation Sentry II - if you know, you know . It probably won't be finished by then (I doubt I'll get the markings done in time, or the gun mantlet cover), but it'll be fun just to get her out and running around. And they do have a superb playground .............

Onwards and upwards ! (literally, as I'm working from the bottom up )

All the best,

Chris

[Chris Hall]

Superficially, and at first glance, there's not a lot of difference between the Centurion Mark 3 and the early Mark 5. But the most obvious difference, even to the untrained eye, is the gun barrel.

The Mark 3 in Korea carried the [technical bit] 'Ordnance, Q.F., 20-pr, TK., Mk 1', often referred to as the '20-pounder Type A'. The significant differences with the one supplied in the Armortek kit are (a) no fume extractor half-way down, and (b) a counterweight on the end of the barrel. I'm told that the taper is slightly different on the Type A from later barrels, but that's above my skill set to change so I'm claiming artistic licence on that .

Removing the fume extractor is relatively straightforward, as it screws in between the two halves of the barrel. At least it should have been simple, but mine was stuck so I had to get medieval with Mr. Angle Grinder . That left a few grooves in the barrel which needed filling, but that needed to be done in any case as there's a small gap (for the fume extractor thread) once the two barrel parts are screwed back together. All looking straight and smooth now.

Then for the counterweight, which is a new part. Given that my metalworking skills are non-existent, and to reduce the weight on the gun / recoil servo, 3D printing was the obvious solution. Fortunately Bovington has at least three Type A barrels on display (and I've seen a further one at the US Armor Collection), so I was able to get measurements. Up to now I've been relying on the CAD skills of Vince Cutajar, but I thought I'd give this one a go myself - after all, how hard can it be ?

Basically, the counterweight is a set of cylinders, which are a preset design in CAD software (I use Fusion 360, which is free for personal use, and print via Chitubox on an Elegoo Saturn [/technical bit]). Much cleverer people than me would probably do it in one piece. But I effectively broke it down into 4 sections - the large ring at the end, the smaller ring behind it, the main tube, and a smaller inner tube to hold it all together. And here's the result, which I'm pretty pleased with:

I made a Thing !

They don't come out too well in the photo, but around the large and smaller rings are a series of holes. The May 1950 Handbook (WO1899) refers to these as 'Tommy Holes'. The Handbook says that the barrel was threaded at both ends, for the breech ring and the counterweight, so I imagine these were for fitting some sort of spanner. The smaller ring was threaded anti-clockwise to (as the Handbook puts it) "counteract any tendancy of the counterweights to unscrew due to the rotational effects of the shell and propellant gases". Makes sense - and I love the verbose description . Fortunately holes are a pretty easy thing to do in Chitubox (my first attempt, with a drill, fractured the whole thing - resin is pretty brittle).

Things are going pretty well now. Next job is painting the hull, and adding Something Important. Then I can get on with the turret, where there are lots of changes.

Best wishes,

Chris

[Michael Cecil]

Hi Chris,

"Superficially, and at first glance, there's not a lot of difference between the Centurion Mark 3 and the early Mark 5. But the most obvious difference, even to the untrained eye, is the gun barrel." To be precise, the Type A and Type B barrels (or Type C barrel) do not determine the Mark. The barrels were interchangeable and both were in use throughout the period of service of the 20-pdr from about 1954/55 when the Type B barrel was introduced.

The difference that determines the Mark for a Mk.3 and a Mk.5 is the co-axial MG, mount and internal stowage: the Mk.3 was equipped with the 7.92mm BESA whereas the Mk.5 (new build Mk.5s and Mk.3s converted to Mk.5) was equipped with the .30-inch Browning MG firing the .30-06 cartridge. The external visual difference was the BESA had a barrel with a conical flash hider, while the Browning had a perforated barrel cover and was most commonly not fitted with a conical flash hider. Internal differences were the mount and stowage.

Mike

[Chris Hall]

Mike -

All good stuff -thanks ! My Centurion is 1950/51, so definitely the Type A. And I have a BESA to fit alongside it .

As for the top of the turret …. your earlier photo is a constant reference !

Best wishes,

Chris

[Vince Cutajar]

Congratulations Chris on making the counterweight from scratch. You must be chuffed.

Keep it up.

Vince

[Chris Hall]

Steady progress on the Korean Cent. With only 2 weeks to go until I take it to Germany it won't be finished, but it'll be in good running order.

I've been thinking for some time about paint (yes, my life is that good ! ). SCC 15 isn't exactly common. But colour is a very personal perspective thing (exactly what colour is dunkelgelb, he said innocently ), so I've found a supplier of spray paints that does a colour which, to my mind, is close enough. It'll do for the hull, turret and side skirts - I'm going to leave the running gear in its original green as (a) most of it will be covered by the side skirts, and (b) I don't want to take the tracks off !

I cleared a Range Rover out of the car port, put down a few pallets as a base - voila, a spray booth ! Masked over the running gear, and the internal electricals, and started waving cans around:

I'm pretty pleased with that. The turret is receiving the same treatment.

I then started to do a bit of detailing. The hull bin lids had support strips along the top - as usual, there were different patterns for different Marks, but the early Mark 3's had long straights on the centre bin and crosses on the outside bins. I wasn't sure how to do this until I saw another forum post (Ray Massa, I think) mentioning half-round strip - I didn't know such a thing existed ! A quick Google search found brass half-rounds on eBay - quickly purchased, and now cut to size and glued on:

When the glue dries I'll fill the centre of the crosses and then paint them in. As usual, I'm going for visual effect rather that pinpoint accuracy.

And one last thing - for now . I've got various photos of Mark 3's, both in Korea and general service. There's a variation in things that were mounted on the front glacis - the original kit came with two track link holders, but sometimes one was replaced with a spare wheel. Another thing was a multi-sided box, officially called the "bin, drivers hood", which contained a fabric cover and windscreen to go over the driver's hatch. A typically British invention, with angles where it shouldn't have . I fancied that as something different, and 3D printing was obviously the way to go, but that's way beyond my skill level. Luckily Vince Cutajar stepped in, and produced this from my dodgy measurements and a few old photos:

Compared to the Real Thing at the US Collection (yes, I took the print all the way to the US for comparison ! ) you can see what an amazing job he did (inclidentally, he also did the water tank filler cap above it):

So that's the story so far. The next task will be re-installing all the electricals into the turret and get that working again. Then it's really just markings (I've designed a decal sheet, and I'm just waiting for the appropriate paper to arrive), putting bits like tools and spare track links back on, and the top of the turret, where there's a lot going on ..........

All the best,

Chris