Bailey Bridge Group Build

[Adrian Harris]

May I suggest that a common paint colour/manufacturer is adopted for those who buy the new Bailey Bridge, such that we can each bring our own sections to shows, add them together to construct a suitably impressive structure, but not have it end up looking like an advert for the new Dulux "50 Shades Of Green" paint range

Adrian.

[Pete Mallett]

All Bailey bridges in the ETO were supplied from British Stocks and were painted SCC 2 Brown! American Bailey bridge production suffered a number of problems and it was found that in many cases the US made Bailey would not mate with British made Bailey and in some cases US Made Bailey would not mate with other US made Bailey components. Eventually the Yanks sorted out their production problems but by that stage it was decided that Britain would supply all Bailey bridge requirements for the ETO and US production would be reserved for the Far East usage. As all US Equipment was painted OD Green it was also decided that British Stocks would remain in SCC 2 Brown to differentiate one from the other, less some errant US Made supplies got mixed in with British manufacturered parts. So, for North Africa, Italy and NW Europe you are all restricted to SCC 2 anyways (historically speaking).

Your Resident Bailey Bridge Nut (Imperial threaded too)

[Tim Page]

That sounds like a good idea Adrian - most unlike us lot
Tim

[Mark Heaps]

Would I be correct in assuming that the difference between the single, double & triple lies in the number of bracing assemblies on each side ?
The photos shown so far on the site would seem to indicate this.
If correct, I would presume this would dictate what type of vehicles the bridge could support, whether it was meant for tanks to transit or restricted to wheeled vehicles only.

Mark

[Steve Stuart]

Well I can see another Guinness Book of Records Attempt; The Largest, longest I/6 Scale Bailey Bridge!
A worthy symbol of cooperation!
Steve

[Adrian Harris]

I'm sure Pete will be along in a minute but my understanding is that a "double" Bridge had two panels per side, next to each other.

A "double double" had four panels per side, in stack of 2 high by 2 wide.

Adrian.

[Adrian Harris]

Right, next question, following on from Pete's excellent colouring advice...

Who can find the manufacturer of the most accurate SCC2 rattle cans ? And can we get a group discount on 100 cans

Adrian.

[Pete Mallett]

A Bailey Bridge could be built in Single-Single to triple-triple construction, i.e single width, single height or triple width, triple height, that's to say that each bay would have three panels, side by side, (on each side of the roadway). That's triple construction, if you then topped each panel with another panel and then another panel on top of that, that would be triple height which gives the triple-triple designation. Whilst you can have triple-single (i.e. three side by side and only one panel high) you could never have single-triple, or single-double (i.e one panel built three or even two panels high). It is these configurations, plus the width of gap to be bridged, and the number of transoms per bay which give the Bridge Classification. In short there are very many tables to help aid in the design of any given bridge but the starting point for working all this out is width of gap plus the heaviest weight that it might be asked to carry! For instance a Centurion on it's own transporter was a class 80 (Cent) classification and this could only be acheived with an EWBB bridge in triple-triple configuration over a certain gap width (which eludes the memory right now).

During WWII the standard divisional set was, IIRC, an80 foot, double-double with a class 40 loading! Beyond that you needed extra stores! When building on Pontoons it's yet another set of tables.

Well I can see another Guinness Book of Records Attempt; The Largest, longest I/6 Scale Bailey Bridge! A worthy symbol of cooperation!

I think the RE Museum did something very much like this a few years back, with their extensive stocks of HGB models in 1/6th scale!

[Stephen White]

Mark, Adrian. Double, double etc refers to the number of panels used to create each span. The first refers to the number on each side in the first (lower) row and the second to any additional levels. So a "double, double" would have four panels, two on each side on the bottom with another four superimposed above them. They could go up to "triple, triple". There were two factors, the load classification and the length of the unsupported span. Load classification doesn't just refer to weight, it is calculated in a rather complex way to take account of different vehicle ground pressures, bending moments, axle spacings etc. Each vehicle also has a corresponding classification and in theory as long as this is the same as or lower than that of the bridge, all is well. That's not the end of the story, however, as load classification also dictates such things as vehicle intervals and speeds. It's all carefully designed to achieve two aims: to prevent embarrassment to senior Sappers should a bridge collapse and to employ lots of Sappers to tell tankies like me when they can cross. Many civilian bridges during the Cold War also had LCNs and if you were commanding a class 60 Chieftain and came upon a class 40 bridge, with a pressing need to be the other side, you were confronted with a choice. There were three factors to consider: one, is anyone watching, two, am I the first in the column and three, how fast do we need to go to stand a chance of not falling into the hole if the dammed thing collapses.... Now it can be told.

I put a link on Pete Mallett's thread to a very good article on the Bailey, here:

http://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2012/01/u ... ey-bridge/

Stephen

[Stephen White]

Well I can see another Guinness Book of Records Attempt; The Largest, longest I/6 Scale Bailey Bridge!
A worthy symbol of cooperation!
Steve

As long as you don’t ask me to organise it again. GWR are not the easiest organisation to work with, unless you’re prepared to pay for one of their adjudicators. We got there in the end but oh.........

S

[Pete Mallett]

Oh, one other thing, most wheeled transport would have been fine on the FBE Bridges (Folding Boat Equipment). A good place to see this would be on the Seine Crossing at Vernon (undertaken by 43rd Wessex). At this point you can see both a Class 40 Bailey POntoon bridge being used by tanks, whilst right along side there is an FBE bridge being used by the wheeled transport, the two bridges were called David and Goliath.


THE BRITISH ARMY IN NORTH-WEST EUROPE 1944-45. © IWM (B 9749)


THE BRITISH ARMY IN NORTH-WEST EUROPE 1944-45. © IWM (BU 185)


THE BRITISH ARMY IN NORTH-WEST EUROPE 1944-45. © IWM (B 9740)

And here's my own model FBE bridge, my 11 year old Son was playing with it on this particular day and those are his Vehicles and Action Figures on the bridge...

http://www.onesixth.co.uk/vb4forum/show ... -Equipment

[Pete Mallett]

For those of you new to Bailey bridge building here is a link to a quick run down of how a Bailey bridge and it's components

http://www.onesixth.co.uk/vb4forum/show ... 1#post2121


Here's a link to a wee gem of a movie which shows the wartime construction of a Bailey

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C188872

[Pete Mallett]

following on from my previous post, re the colours of Bailey Bridges during WWII, here is a period colour photograph from the IWM collection show a Bailey Bridge in use in Italy, April 1945. Yuu can clearly see the End Posts and Bailey panels by the MP's legs and the colour is very obvious, SCC 2 Brown!

A copy of the wartime ACI (Army Council Instruction) from 1944, advising on Bailey Bridge paint colouring can be found here...

http://www.onesixth.co.uk/vb4forum/show ... 1#post2310


BRITISH EIGHTH ARMY TROOPS CROSSING THE RIVER PO, BEYOND FERRARA, ITALY, 28 APRIL 1945. © IWM (TR 2852)IWM Non Commercial Licence

[Adrian Harris]

This is a bridge over the River Loddon near me:

How does one tell if this is an actual "Bailey" bridge or an imitation ?

Adrian.

[Pete Mallett]

Hi Adrian,

well in general there's no such thing as an 'imitation' Bailey bridge. It's either Bailey, or not. In the main, Bailey evolution moves from Basic Bailey Bridge (1942- 1945), to Standard Widened Bailey bridge (1945-1949) to Extra Wide Bailey Bridge (1949 - present). These variations mostly occured in the transoms and stringers with no alterations to the Basic Bailey Bridge Panel. By the 1970's Acrow was making the Acrow Panel Bridge which looks very similar to the Bailey but very many things in it are substantially different that it could no longer be described as a Bailey Bridge, but perhaps son of Bailey bridge.

The Panel for a a Heavy Girder Bridge look 'similar' to a Bailey bridge but are substantially larger. In the main six men could, and did, carry a Bailey Panel. However, a HGB Panel required a crane to get it in place on the bridge. The basic measurement for a Bailey Panel is 10 foot wide by five foot high (give or take some inches). Measurements are taken from centre of panel pin to centre of corresponding panel pin.

Although Google maps has slightly distorted the picture somewhat I wouldn't hesitate to say that this looks like a Bailey Bridge to me. Although it's a single-single it does, interestingly enough, have reinforcement chords bolted to the top of some of the panels. This was done to lend extra stability to certain bridges and prevent buckling of the top chord of the Bailey Panels. It's painted green because post-war eveything got re-painted Deep Bronze Green and civilian councils tend to stick to those colours when re-painting!

To find out what kind of Bailey it is you'll need to pay a visit and look under the bridge to ascertain how many stringers are in use (5 for BB, 6 for SWBB and 7 fro EWBB). If you have difficulty in discerning which the stringers then I may be able to assist if you can provide a photograph of the underside of the bridge.

Here's another photograph of your bridge. Several things to note here: It looks to be about 8 bays long (that's 8 panels per side at 10 foot per panel = 80 feet, which is the same as the divisional Bailey Set during WWII. Generally the Divisional set would have enough Panels to make a Single-Double. Other things to note is the number of transoms in use per panel. I need to check the tables but I think, IIRC, that this configuration of 80 feet, plus one transom per panel is about the maxmum specification for a Class 12 bridge (i.e. up to 12 ton loads)



Pete