Real or fake

[Phil Woollard]

This thread is for the keen Armortek modeller who wants to create that photo or piece of video that looks so real when viewed by the uninitiated (or the initiated) that they cannot tell if it's
"Real or fake", or at least there's some doubt.
So if you would like to post your best examples and maybe some crappy examples to, and that doesn't mean that the subject model is crappy maybe we can discuss the reasons why things look like they do ie location, shade/light and so on. It could be a photo of a hatch or a wheel (one of Stephens pics of his Cent hatch is a brilliant example of that, is it real or isn't it scratch of the head.
This is also a good chance to upload our precious photos.
Gerhard.....that photo of the Jagdtiger is one of your best and the Panther is pretty cool also.
I do like black and white for our chosen period vehicles be they combat or not.

[Phil Woollard]

I have a long list of why I think this Tiger1/late version looks "unreal"
It's all constructive criticism as far as I am concerned so don't hold back guys!
This is or was one of mine and I took the photo.
The good points; scale is good , the trees in the background are ok, nice subject , weathers good, no figures with out of line posture ( wrongly posed body parts) a bit of smoke from an idling Maybach , the subject says to me a late war vehicle in good condition possibly waiting for advance towards the enemy orders , enemy that's to far away to worry about button up / close down.
The unseen crew suggest something is about to kick off , commander looking forward in a tactical manner , no close support weapons outside the vehicle.Even the barrel is pointing in a realistic way , it's not up pointing at the stars or to far down pointing at mole hills, generally the barrel of such a relatively long range projectile weapon points level to slightly down when engaging a target due to the curvature of the Earth! This is because the target is slightly down hill (and quite close as most tank targets are engaged from high ground) and an HV round flies quite level for a while but then we get into elevation trajectories and so on...and I am talking boll..ks now , I think what I am saying is think about the barrel and its angle ..its so important for that photo.

[Gerhard Michel]

Hello Phil,

my problem is that I have so many pics of models and model parts (more than 30,000; no joke), that I don't remember which pics I showed already in which thread. Of course only a few of them are worth to be shown as tries of a simulation of full size tanks. If you like that I can try to show some more pics here:

[mark lawson]

This is one of my pictures showing the Panther G from Tim Page. What I don’t like about it is the plank background which could not be helped, the explosion though is captured rather well and is something the naked eye does not register, picture was taken at Douches Panzer Museum Munster no harm came to the Panther.

This is my Tiger from a few years ago; the picture is reasonable and could be improved.

[Phil Woollard]

Good start guys and nice photos. For this thread to work we will need to post the same photos many times, so dont worry about repeating the pics. For us to discuss and learn and so improve our photos its the only way.
Do you think it would be best for the owner of the photo/subject to start disecting its good and bad points before we dive in and pull it apart and upset the guy?
Can we stick to maybe one photo with a limit of two per post as we need to pull them apart in detail me thinks.
Gerhard...30,000 photos holey moley !The other pic of the Jagdtiger from the rear is the best ive seen from you can you post that again please? Would you mind if I tweaked it at some point? The pic of the Panther from the rear is also cool.
Im afraid the pics of the superb vehicles with the elephant grass in and around them just dont do it for me (please dont take any of the comments to heart its just my humble opinion)
Mark the Panther/mine pic is cool, would you mind if I tweaked it a little? I fully understand if you would rather not (copyright and all that) you never know it might become famous one day and make you a few bucks, the atmospheric pic of the late Tiger is good but as you said needs improving, you could do a lot with it.

Now to the bad points of my old Tiger1 late subject/pic.

The ride height is wrong, a fully combat laden tracked vehicle would ride a considerable amount lower, and so the track tension is incorrect.
I don't like the late version as one of my subjects, the wheel arrangement in this scale in my opinion just isn't as photogenic as the early wheel type.
The camouflage pattern doesn't work in this scale.
The commander is not dressed correctly.
You cant see the muzzel break.
The smoke is to wispy.
Its not in period black and white.
The hanging jerry cans look pants.
The vehicle is to clean.
Theres no coms ariel.
Theres no oil staining from the wheel hubs.
There are little to no shadows (the shadow subject is a big one and requires covering at some depth sometime).

.....phil.

[Phil Woollard]

Hope you dont mind Mark but i couldn't resist,I have left your copyright in place.. if you are not happy I will delite cheers Phil

[Phil Woollard]

Gerhard I hope you don't mind but I just can't help myself....I do like your pic of the Panther, i will delete if you wish.
Which example do you prefer?

[Gerhard Michel]

Hi Phil,

please feel free to alter my pics like you want and delete the redundant ones, for use in this forum! You did an excellent job with your alterations; indeed! I think also I don't need a copyright note here; in my eyes it would disturb the overall impression of such pics.

If you like it I will try to show further pics of that kind after having discussed the shown ones.

A discussion of the pics: I think we all can learn more about making pics more 'real'. Just like you say: 'discuss, learn and improve our photos'

I agree that the grass is not very helpful, because it has the wrong scale. But unfortunately in 'Eckersmühlen proving ground' there is a zone of this grass between the 'desert' and the 'woods'.

Did you mean this photo of my Jagdtiger?



It is not an Armortek model (but Bigtanks), and the coloured bucket may disturb, but this bucket is a 'trademark' of all my models, and my comrades are insisting in attaching it . The fine sand produces a little dust cloud behind the vehicle, when it is dry enough. (The following pic I intend only for further explanation, not to be discussed)

[Phil Woollard]

Yes thats the photo I like. Now you go through the negatives that you can see and then the positives.
The other pic of the JT has a very nice sand picking effect from the track and idler which is cool.
Do you realise I would normally charge to edit photos, but you guys are good to me so all is fine

[mark lawson]

Phil, I don’t mind you tweaking the pictures at all it’s something I haven’t got round to and I like what you have done as it removes much of the white wall, I’m sure Tim will also be pleased with the results.
The Tiger picture was taken from a coloured picture I quickly changed it to black and white and softened the focus a little, talking of pictures one thing that narks me with a good quality camera is the clear pictures they produce which would never do for war time pictures, softening the focus helps a little if only there was a grainy setting.

[Phil Woollard]

Thats great Mark, the subject was a little too far away from the camera for me to do much with it but I think it turned out just fine.If you didn't already know that the background was weather boarding then you would think it was a in scale building.
With your reference to the new camera technology I agree 100%, even low cost cameras are HD now.
The purists in the film industry like Mr Spielberg for example use the old celluloid film roll to give their period war films that lovely dated soft appeal.
Ironically HD is warts and all unless you spend hours making it rough again, Youtube insist on labelling all my new work with HD.
Now we want a nice simple photo from you that we can unpick (no drama in the next one)
.....regards Phil

[Phil Woollard]

Well Gerhard you should be proud of that Panther it looks way cool and totally convincing.
As I pointed out if the gun was lowered then you would be hard pushed to tell the real thing from that photo...well done mate and the value has just gone up!

[Gerhard Michel]

Hi Phil,

many thanks for your words, but that is only my pic, but not my Panther! My Jagdpanther didn't see rough areas till now; it waits for the spring! Therefore till now I don't have suitable pics from it in its 'natural environment'

[Mikael Hörner]

A Winther theme then:

/Mike

[Phil Woollard]

Welcome to our show and tell Mikael, nice photo good scale background and a good subject.
Tell us what you think are the negatives..things you are not happy with then tell us what you believe are the positives.
I will have a think
Is this your pride and joy as idon't want to offend you with my opinions? . In my eyes there is a lot that is against this ever being a good photo, snow being one......Phil