Bergepanther winch stop

[Phil Woollard]

Just wondering what the owners have done to automatically stop or park the winch when its sent fully home, it's so powerful it has the potential to deform the rear of your Berge if you were not paying attention or were operating from some distance away!
I may use another channel with a dead-mans switch so its isolated when not in use.
I can reproduce this recovery now with a Bergepather .....regards Phil

[Fabrice Le Roux]

Hi Phil,

Interesting problem for all scale winch operators.

The original Bergepanther had a traction dynamometer, Zugkraftmessers, fitted:

Bergepanther Zugkraftmessers

In some diagrams this is incorrectly labeled as a "cable tensioning device".

The ETOUSA Intelligence Report No.167 includes a brief description under the Winch heading. It confirms that the device was adjustable, should be set for 40 tons and would trigger a red warning light near the winch operators position if the load exceeded that. It ends with the note, "There is no positive cut-out." So the model is accurate in that respect!

The Bergepanther crew were reminded with a special Note (Beachten) on p29 of D659/4 "Bergen von Panzerkampfwagen" It translates (roughly) as, "Observe the 40-t-limit (sic) Warning Light and Dynamometer Needle Scale. Should the Warning Light illuminate, stop the Winch immediately". The ETOUSA report omitted to mention the needle scale on the device itself.

The key to trouble-free operation seemed to be to keep the cable under tension both when paying out and pulling in. The winch was very prone to the rope riding off the capstans. This was picked up in the original Kummersdorf Field Tests, repeated in reports from the Front, and observed again in the Allied Technical Intelligence evaluations. One of the factors causing the rope to slip off was contamination with mud and small debris. To clean this off a clam-shell set of spiral brushes was devised and mounted on sprung curved rods outboard of the Seilfuhrung (roller fairlead) at the rear. Good pictures exist on p16-1-64 of Panzertracts 16-1 Bergepanther book. They did not work in real life but set me thinking...

Given that the scale problem is not to measure excessive loads, but to stop the Seilkopf (lit Cable Head, the end fitting if the cable) being pulled into the Seilfuhrung and possibly damaging the model. The solution may be to make a switch based around two cylinders one inside the other, modeled to look something like the closed clam-shell brush device, with the winch cable threaded through the centre. The cylinders would be compressed and the circuit closed if the Seilkopf was pulled in too far, giving you 30-40mm stand-off distance.

Given the electrical load being fed to the winch, the cylindrical switch would clearly have to trigger an appropriate relay. A little fiddly to make, but you would at least have an unobtrusive "positive cut-out" installed.

Hope this helps.
cheers Fabrice

[Phil Woollard]

Thanks for that Fabrice very interesting, I was thinking of a micro switch somewhere maybe around the rollers or maybe the whole roller assembly just pivoting enough to latch a micro switch out of sight in the engine bay.
It's good to know that the crews also had the same concerns, although it would have been winch/cable damage in that respect for the full size vehicle .
I'm still keen on a separate rc switch that you have to initiate when you choose to operate the winch.
All good stuff that keeps me interested .
I intend to use the winch for which it was designed ie winching vehicles !..........regards Phil

[Fabrice Le Roux]

Hi Phil,

I had considered a microswitch in the roller fairlead, but thought it might spoil the detailing.

Perhaps following the procedures used by the crews makes this type of damage less likely to happen. In practice the seilkopf never came that close to the fairlead as it was needed to lift and lower the groundspade. It seems from the wartime photos to have been left hanging free when not in the socket on the spade. I have seen no photo of it stowed tight up against the fairlead.

For my M32 ARV I modified my transmitter with one channel first undoing a fail-safe electromechanical brake and the winch in-out functions then done by the other channel. The brake engages automatically if the power fails. The stick is protected with a safety cover. Here is a pic to explain better.

Good luck
Fabrice

[Armortek]

Phil

If you fit a limit switch for the fully retracted position of the winch, you will need a bypass fitted with a diode so that you can drive the winch back off the the stop. Otherwise it will be stuck in position.

Mark

[William Gardeniers]

Hi Phil

i have made it so that when i use the winch i must use the stick and a switch on my transmitter.

Regards William

[Phil Woollard]

Hi Mark, good advice but I think im going to have the extra channel switch as its idiot proof .
This model bergepanther is just great theres so much going on!
How about a centurian ARV? ..regards Phil