Mk. IV No. 50 - Beutepanzer Female (Liesel)

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Chris Hall
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Slowly undressing Liesel

Post by Chris Hall »

Those of you at Tankfest will have seen Liesel in the lineup, but not seen her moving about much ..... I've been running her for almost 2 years now, and the dreaded 'clicking tracks' problem has surfaced, due to the drive chain stretching and slipping on the motor. It's a Big Issue for us Mark IV devotees, as it entails taking the track off completely (unless you've followed Oliver's clever solution !).

Noting Steve and Daniel's experiences, it's a job I've been dreading. I had planned to park her up for the rest of the season, and tackle it over the winter. But yesterday, in a flash of madness, I decided to get her up on the workbench and have a go.

Track removal on a Mark IV is relatively straightforward, in theory. Slacken off the tensioning bolts to the front drive sprockets, allowing the drive assembly to drop down inside the front horns. It helps if you take off the front track inserts EK0239 and EK0240, to get in a screwdriver to pull down the tracks even further. Then unbolt a few of the track plates covering the track chain joining links, pop off the clips, remove the joining links and the tracks just lift off. Simples ! In practice, of course ... the real problem (I'm assuming you've adopted Steve's fundamental suggestion of painting the joining links so they stand out, otherwise you'll never find them) is undoing all those little M3 bolts on the track plates (the outer four per plate). On all the plates I took out (you'll probably need to undo four) three came out relatively easily and the fourth was a complete pain. But, 3 hours later, the left track was off ! Time to look at 2 years of wear and tear.

There is, of course, a lot of crud. But surprisingly little wear:
Final drive, looking forward
Final drive, looking forward
The drive chain is incredibly floppy - no wonder it was skipping ! The solution is to loosen off the bolts securing the motor, drop the motor a bit to tighten the chain, and then re-tighten the bolts. Fiddly work with a long-handled Allen Key in a confined space. I hope Mark is right to say that you only need to do it once !
Bottom Rollers
Bottom Rollers
Surprisingly little wear. Paint has, of course, been worn off, but the metal is bright, with no obvious sign of pitting or other corrosion. And the rollers all spin easily - in fact, probably more easily than when they were originally put in !
Top roller, with 'bird's nest'
Top roller, with 'bird's nest'
Track run - top
Track run - top
There's very little pressure on the top. Most of the crud is carried around the tank (hence the 'bird's nest'). The plastic strips (largely, I suspect, to reduce the sound of the tracks dragging over the top) are still intact. The only obvious wear is to some of the rivet heads on the side of the front cab and rear roof, which have been flattened a bit as they're under the track edges.
Track chains and undersides of track plates
Track chains and undersides of track plates
The track chains are fine. Some of the track plates have buckled a bit from going over rough ground, but the tarnishing is surface only. The only work required is a wire brushing to get rid of loose crud and some bike chain oil for the track chains.
Front drive sprockets
Front drive sprockets
This one intrigues me. The lines of crud, and the lack of wear to some of the teeth, suggest that the track chains go round more like 'four sides of a square'. It doesn't seem to be a problem - just an odd effect.

So, I'm pleased I've started it, and it wasn't quite as scary as I'd imagined. "There is nothing to fear but fear itself" as several wise men are accredited with. And I can't see any damage or problems building for the future. So a good clean up looks to be all that's necessary (along with tightening that drive chain, of course). Then the other track, rinse and repeat.

But, while I'm going to all this effort, there are more things to do. I've also taken off the sponsons, as I've got a new set with corrected viewing port layout and a revised system for spinning the drums. Then I can fit the 'wiggly gun pack' - will that make Liesel the first Female to use it ? And there are some details I want to add that I didn't do originally, like the extra front armour, the shield over the rear exhaust louvres, and extra detail to the roof (I recently picked up an old postcard of Liesel with good top detail). So plenty to do. I may have it all done for the Open Day, but my real target is 1 June 2018, when I'm minded to take her over to the Fort de la Pompelle, near Reims, for her centenary.

All the best,

Chris
Mark IV (Liesel, Abteilung 14, France 1918)
M3 Lee (25 Dragoons, Burma 1944)
Universal Carrier (2/Wiltshires, Italy 1944)
Panther (Deserter, 145 RAC, Italy 1944)
Centurion Mk 3 (8KRIH, Korea 1950/51)
Morris Quad, 25-pdr & limber (45RA, Korea 1951)

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Still slowly undressing Liesel

Post by Chris Hall »

The sponsons are easy to remove - they're only held on by a few cap bolts. Liesel looks a bit forlorn now ....
Sans sponsons and electricals
Sans sponsons and electricals
It did put me in mind of a postcard in my collection:
Mark II Postcard.jpg
(Although, from the exhaust plates on the roof, this is either a Mark I or a Mark II, probably being stripped for use as a supply tank).

Perhaps I should have posted this in the 'Real or Fake' thread ! :lol:

My replacement sponsons are already coming on nicely (just some rivet holes to drill into the top plates) so that shouldn't take long. Then I can start to think about all those servos and LED's. And, of course, I have the old ones as painting guides.

Tightening the drive chains, though, is a different matter. Getting an allen key into such a confined space may not be practical. The right-hand motor is even more precarious, as the whole assembly has worked loose (although, as a benefit, the drive chain is a lot tighter !). Therefore I'm considering a variant of Oliver's solution of drilling through the outside armour level with the cap heads. The holes can then be filled with a very flat grommet which, fortunately, will largely be covered by the big Iron Cross at the rear. So, over the weekend, I'll be in the position of measuring (several times) before drilling (once). The upside will be that any future tightening can be done with the tracks in place.

Fortunately I have Flaming Fire II's internal frame to refer to !

All the best,

Chris
Mark IV (Liesel, Abteilung 14, France 1918)
M3 Lee (25 Dragoons, Burma 1944)
Universal Carrier (2/Wiltshires, Italy 1944)
Panther (Deserter, 145 RAC, Italy 1944)
Centurion Mk 3 (8KRIH, Korea 1950/51)
Morris Quad, 25-pdr & limber (45RA, Korea 1951)

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Rebuilding Liesel

Post by Chris Hall »

Real Life has got in the way over the summer, although it did include two shows with Denny so there was play along with work. And I've been tinkering with Liesel, and have got her to a stage where she's starting to look like her old self.

Tracks

Both tracks have been removed, cleaned, and put back on. Just the few track plates over the chain joining links to put back on, and then the front tensioners to adjust. The drive chains to the motors have been tightened up, and the motors secured. My 'Oliver variant' solution of drilling through the outside plates worked well - it enables you to get right in there with a straight allen key to tighten up the motor mounts. Then I glued in some small plates over the inside of the holes, and filled. Just needs smoothing down and repainting (fortunately, the holes are largely covered by the Iron Crosses on the rear horns, so most of the repainting is black). Should I ever need to repeat this exercise (which is unlikely, as the chains seemed to have stretched to their maximum degree) then all I need to do is take the tracks off, punch out the holes / plates, tighten and re-plate / refill. So, all-in-all, I'm very happy with how this has worked out - so happy, in fact, that I shall be pre-drilling the outer plates on Flaming Fire II even before I put her together !

Re-assembly Left 1 small.jpg
Re-assembly Right 2 small.jpg
Sponsons

The new sponsons look good, and work well. They're now far more historically accurate, with the revised viewing / pistol port layout (see my earlier posts, if Photo****it will let you :roll:) and a row of rivets around the top plate. But, from a modelling perspective, the drums now swing smoothly. This required an awful lot of refinement, with several disassemblies to file another piece down just a little bit more .... even some of the glued rivets needed to be cut down as they were jamming against the drum. Then I fitted Adrian Harris's new Lewis Guns, which look superb (and, of course, there's a lot more of them than on Steve Stuart's Male !).

Re-assembly Left 2 small.jpg
'Wiggly guns'

Then, finally, I got down to the 'wiggly gun pack' that I got from Gill over a year ago. There are 9 servos in there ! 2 for each sponson Lewis (ie. 4 per sponson) and 1 for the Commander's Lewis in the cab. The instructions are relatively straightforward, but it's not entirely clear that the con rods have an M3 hole at one end and an M4 at the other, so check carefully before thread-locking. And I found most of the nuts and bolts I needed in a pack quaintly named "Other Fasteners (21 pcs)". But it all makes sense if (as usual) you approach it slowly and methodically:

Re-assembly inside servos small.jpg
There is a problem, though - the servo and LED leads are too short for where I want to put the control box. The servo leads are a relatively easy fix (now that Adrian has pointed me in the direction of Hobbyking, that is :wink:), but the LED's are a bit more of a problem as they use d-sub connectors - Adrian and Steve are working on that one.

So what's left ? Repainting, of course, so she looks on the outside like she did before. Then refitting the electricals, making sure there's clearance for all those servos. The servos themselves need to be set at the mid-point before the final connection of the con rods. Then I can work out the right length for the extension leads. After all that, Liesel should be running again !

But, as I was told at the start of all this, they're never really finished .... over the winter, I want to do some changes to the roof, and there's Steve's superb unditching beam to finish and fit .... and, after all that, I might be able to get back to Flaming Fire II now that Monique has sent me the motors and all the options .... unless Armortek produce something really, really nice after the Elefant (I know what I'd like, but I'm not saying :) ).

All the best,

Chris
Mark IV (Liesel, Abteilung 14, France 1918)
M3 Lee (25 Dragoons, Burma 1944)
Universal Carrier (2/Wiltshires, Italy 1944)
Panther (Deserter, 145 RAC, Italy 1944)
Centurion Mk 3 (8KRIH, Korea 1950/51)
Morris Quad, 25-pdr & limber (45RA, Korea 1951)

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Re: Mk. IV No. 50 - Beutepanzer Female (Liesel)

Post by Stephen White »

Whipet be a First World War tank perchance Chris? Stephen

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Re: Mk. IV No. 50 - Beutepanzer Female (Liesel)

Post by Chris Hall »

Stephen White wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:10 pm
Whipet be a First World War tank perchance Chris? Stephen
Surprisingly, No (although I wouldn't be upset if they did !). Altruistically, I'm not sure a Whippet would sell well enough and, with 2 Mark IV Females and a (non-Armortek) Male I think I should probably spread my wings a bit.

It's Allied, and WW2, with a superb, if obscure, historical background. That's as far as I'll go :P.
Mark IV (Liesel, Abteilung 14, France 1918)
M3 Lee (25 Dragoons, Burma 1944)
Universal Carrier (2/Wiltshires, Italy 1944)
Panther (Deserter, 145 RAC, Italy 1944)
Centurion Mk 3 (8KRIH, Korea 1950/51)
Morris Quad, 25-pdr & limber (45RA, Korea 1951)

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Re: Mk. IV No. 50 - Beutepanzer Female (Liesel)

Post by Adrian Harris »

Glad to see my Lewis Gun barrels have passed muster :D :D :D

> I think I should probably spread my wings a bit.

Therein lies the slippery slope to bankruptcy :lol: :lol: :lol:

Adrian.
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Re: Mk. IV No. 50 - Beutepanzer Female (Liesel)

Post by Chris Hall »

Well, I’ve been running Liesel around without any problems, so the tightened drive chains certainly work (no more 'clicking tracks syndrome' - hurrah !). But I’ve only just got around to working out the servos and wiggly guns ......

I mentioned that the servo leads are too short (well, I suppose it depends on where you put the ‘wiggly gun pack’). Extending the servo leads proved simple, once Steve Stuart and Adrian Harris had pointed me in the direction of Hobbyking and the Component Shop. Ten 12” Futaba leads for £8 including p&p – can’t be bad. One for each servo, and a spare. The problem was with the LED’s, which fit to a d-sub plug. Again Steve came to the rescue by supplying the extension cables that you normally see on computer printers !

VERY modern technology !
VERY modern technology !
So everything worked, but I still couldn’t figure out how to adjust the servos. And then Steve came to the rescue once again (a constant theme throughout this build – I’m truly indebted to him) by telling me about a wonderful little gadget called a Turnigy Servo Tester (other manufacturers may be available, I suppose :wink:), available for around a tenner from Amazon or other suppliers. A life-saving little gadget, for evermore known to me as the ‘Turnigy Thingy’. Next to no instructions, but it’s pretty straightforward – centre the servo (the neutral setting), work out the mid-point of the thing you’re fitting to the servo (machine gun or drum), connect one t’other using the servo arm, then run the automatic setting a few times to make sure it all works – if not, tweak a bit until it does.

The life-saving gadget
The life-saving gadget
I found out that I hadn’t followed the instructions perfectly :oops:, in that I'd fitted some of the machine gun con rods the wrong way round. I bodged my way round this by using longer (M3*16) bolts between the con rod and the servo arm, which hasn’t created a problem (yet).

Spot the deliberate mistake .....
Spot the deliberate mistake .....
The only thing I would say is that I can’t see any way of easily doing this with the sponsons in place ! So I popped them off again (for the umpteenth time) and held each one in the bench vice while getting the servos set up. It’s all pretty straightforward when you know how.

So, basically, I think I’m there. This weekend’s job is to put Liesel back together again – refit the sponsons and reconnect all the electricals. Then some paint touching up, new Iron Crosses on the rear horns, and I’m done (for the time being). If it all goes that smoothly (it seldom does !) I’ll try and put up a YouTube video of all the guns moving and flashing. Fingers crossed.

All the best,

Chris
Mark IV (Liesel, Abteilung 14, France 1918)
M3 Lee (25 Dragoons, Burma 1944)
Universal Carrier (2/Wiltshires, Italy 1944)
Panther (Deserter, 145 RAC, Italy 1944)
Centurion Mk 3 (8KRIH, Korea 1950/51)
Morris Quad, 25-pdr & limber (45RA, Korea 1951)

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Re: Mk. IV No. 50 - Beutepanzer Female (Liesel)

Post by Steve Stuart »

I think Liesel needs a nick name now, 'Flash Harriet' :roll:
Congratulations! Steve

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Re: Mk. IV No. 50 - Beutepanzer Female (Liesel)

Post by Chris Hall »

Another bad joke from Steve there ....... :)

Well, Liesel is now back together, with fresh markings, tightened tracks, corrected sponsons, more realistic gun barrels (thanks, Adrian !) and a working 'wiggly gun pack'. I took her down to Bovington yesterday for a meeting of the Southern Armour Group (down, Denny ! Down !) in the Tank Story Hall, which gave me a chance to drive her over to the 'sacred ground' beside the Mark II to shoot a video:



And I was joined by Steve (with B27 Bloodstone) and Brian Clay (with his unnamed Mark IV Male in 1918 colours), so there were three Armortek Mark IV's together under the front horns of the Mark II all with guns firing away:

P1060437 small.jpg
Well, 'tis almost Christmas !
Well, 'tis almost Christmas !

Brian took a video of it, which I hope he'll share (bound to be better than mine !).

Liesel isn't finished yet, though (now I believe it when people say "they're never finished"). I need to do some historical additions to the roof and the rear panel, and one of the guns (port rear) isn't working very well so needs tweaking (technical term), but she's good enough for the 2018 show season. My thoughts are now turning to the long-neglected F30 Flaming Fire II, which I've promised myself (and others) that I'll have running at Tankfest. So, in between seeing relatives and friends and over-indulging over the next couple of weeks, it's back to riveting ......

All the best,

Chris
Mark IV (Liesel, Abteilung 14, France 1918)
M3 Lee (25 Dragoons, Burma 1944)
Universal Carrier (2/Wiltshires, Italy 1944)
Panther (Deserter, 145 RAC, Italy 1944)
Centurion Mk 3 (8KRIH, Korea 1950/51)
Morris Quad, 25-pdr & limber (45RA, Korea 1951)

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Re: Mk. IV No. 50 - Beutepanzer Female (Liesel)

Post by Chris Hall »

For those of you on Facebook, Brian has posted up his video (much better than mine !) which should play from here:



A gathering of Mark IV's is always a magical event - even better if they congregate next to a real WW1 tank.

Adrian Harris asked if Liesel's machine gun sounds were working. They are, but I didn't have the sound turned up very high .....

All the best,

Chris
Mark IV (Liesel, Abteilung 14, France 1918)
M3 Lee (25 Dragoons, Burma 1944)
Universal Carrier (2/Wiltshires, Italy 1944)
Panther (Deserter, 145 RAC, Italy 1944)
Centurion Mk 3 (8KRIH, Korea 1950/51)
Morris Quad, 25-pdr & limber (45RA, Korea 1951)

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Liesel verses The Beast from the East

Post by Chris Hall »

I wasn't able to enjoy the first visit from The Beast at the end of February, as I'd just got home from emergency eye surgery (thanks to all of you that have sent good wishes). But The Beast has returned, there's a good 4 inches of snow on Salisbury Plain, and I have one good eye, so there was no way I was going to miss the chance again ........

P1020344 small.jpg
P1020346 small.jpg
P1020347 small.jpg
And my lovely wife took a video:

Chances like this don't come along very often in the south of England, so it would have been a crime to waste it (health issues notwithstanding).

Enjoy !

Chris
Mark IV (Liesel, Abteilung 14, France 1918)
M3 Lee (25 Dragoons, Burma 1944)
Universal Carrier (2/Wiltshires, Italy 1944)
Panther (Deserter, 145 RAC, Italy 1944)
Centurion Mk 3 (8KRIH, Korea 1950/51)
Morris Quad, 25-pdr & limber (45RA, Korea 1951)

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Re: Mk. IV No. 50 - Beutepanzer Female (Liesel)

Post by michael hilton »

Thanks for posting Chris, 1-0 to Liesel, and well done to the camera lady.

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Re: Mk. IV No. 50 - Beutepanzer Female (Liesel)

Post by Steve Stuart »

Enjoyed!
Steve

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Re: Mk. IV No. 50 - Beutepanzer Female (Liesel)

Post by Adrian Harris »

Going back a bit, to when you had the tracks off Liesel, you made the comment:

> the track chains go round more like 'four sides of a square'. It doesn't seem to be a problem - just an odd effect.

Do you think that is because the drive sprocket has been chosen with an even number of teeth (20?), so the chain always meshes with the same teeth, whereas an odd number of teeth would ensure that they were all used evenly ?

Adrian.
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Re: Mk. IV No. 50 - Beutepanzer Female (Liesel)

Post by Chris Hall »

Those of you interested in WW1 archaeology may be aware of the ongoing 'dig' at the presumed site near Bullecourt of Mark II Male 796. This tank was knocked out while supporting the Australian attack in April 1917. The attack didn't go well - indeed, the Australians mistrusted tanks thereafter, and didn't really learn to appreciate them until the Battle of Amiens on 8 August 1918.

796 (or D23) has the reputation of being the most photographed tank on the Western Front, as the Germans used it as an MG and Observation Post for the rest of the War. Athough the tank was broken up sometime after the Armistice, the team are finding fascinating remains still left behind, including the bodies of two German soldiers who have now been given proper burial. More information can be found at http://www.breakinggroundheritage.org.u ... -of-arc-17 and on their Facebook page.

As the dig is funded by the Heritage Lottery Fund (like Tiger 131), the team are required to do a number of Public Displays, which include a 2/3 scale display tank built by disabled ex-servicemen supported by Help for Heroes. The tank is actually kept by a friend of mine in our village - he told me it was going to be on display at a neighbouring village fete, and suggested I might like to bring Liesel along. Well, how could I refuse ?

When I got there, I found the tank, a notice board .... and nothing else. The (Army) chap who had requested it was busy running the fete, so he asked me to run the display for him. Poor deluded fool had me pegged as some sort of an expert ..... :roll: :wink:

Anyway, it was a lovely afternoon, and I had a fair amount of interest from adults, some of whom had even heard of Armortek. The children, of course, just wanted to see Liesel running around. And I brought along a few extra bits, like a Male sponson, one of my new fascines, and a 1/16 scale r/c A7V I recently picked up (it would have been rude not to). So here's how the display looked:

P1060572 small.jpg
P1060573 small.jpg
P1060574 small.jpg

And there was a fly-over of this .... which was nice.

P1060576 small.jpg

A nice afternoon, a good bit of PR, and strengthened links with the local Military.

All the best,

CHris
Mark IV (Liesel, Abteilung 14, France 1918)
M3 Lee (25 Dragoons, Burma 1944)
Universal Carrier (2/Wiltshires, Italy 1944)
Panther (Deserter, 145 RAC, Italy 1944)
Centurion Mk 3 (8KRIH, Korea 1950/51)
Morris Quad, 25-pdr & limber (45RA, Korea 1951)

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