Build log of first series of Mid-production Tiger

[Pete Mallett]

I've changed the thread title to reflect the fact this thread will be my build log from this pont forward.

I have one of the first batch of Tiger's Armortek made, back in 2003, unbuilt. Due to one thing and another I lost my window for building it and it's been in storage ever since. I did manage to prime and build the lower hull, packs 1 - 3, but the rest of the packs we're slow to arrive and by the time it did all show up I was already packing up my house for a move. So the whole thing has been in storage ever since. I am now beginning to unpack it all (most everything still in their original shipping bags and boxes)and getting ready to build it in the coming weeks!

One of the first things I've unpacked has been one the last things to arrive, Option pack 1, which was the motors, electronics and the elevation gear for the main gun. The Electronics are all there and appear to be in good order although in comparison to the Comet set-up they're a bit more 'manual' in their configuration. However, I'm a little mystified by some of the 'mechanical' components for the gun elevation and there does not appear to be an exploded drawing for these parts in the Option 1 document pack. I think I can work it out from the text description but, just to be sure, can anyone tell me if there was such a drawing to help in identifying these items and if so can someone provide me with a scan of it?

Also, anyone got any recommendations re this older model. I presume very many things have been improved upon since this early venture so if there are easier and better ways to do things then please let me know!

Incidentally, this Tiger came with the Parvalux motors whilst the new set-ups are using the EMD motors. Is there a major difference between the two and would it be better to upgrade the Parvalux to the EMD's?

Also, what radio sets are people recommending for use with both these tanks. The Tiger came with a Sanwa VG 600 and I'm using an old Futaba Skysport 6 for the Comet but I think there must be something better out there by now?

Any advice anyone can offer in improving this old model would be most welcome, so post away chaps!

Pete

[Adrian Harris]

Pete

If you can PM me an email address, I can send you a picture from the old Armortek gallery, showing the elevation gear fitted into the turret. For some reason, you can't PM attachments on the forum

As far as upgrades go, for that model, the list is pretty much endless

A lot of the modern Tiger parts are backward compatible, and because of the the continual improvements, you could end up throwing away 75% of the parts you have, replacing them with current Armortek or third party supplier parts.

Or you could build it as you have it and still end up with a Tiger which runs as well as Robin Ellis's or Marc Ford's, or any others from that production run.

It depends how much of a rivet counter you want/have to be

Adrian.

[Adrian Harris]

A word on the motors.

The very first option packs only held the motors via brackets into the floor. This could allow the motors to twist under heavy load, and cause the drive gears to eat into the gear casings.

Then they moved to a flange mount around the drive shaft and an L shaped bracket to support the back of the motor. The current ones just attach via the flange. There was an upgrade which included a template to drill the mounting holes for the flange. I had one around here for my 2003 Tiger.

Also, the very early option packs had two piece drive gears, and there is a remote possibility that they could separate under load. Armortek now machine them from a single piece, to ensure their integrity under load.

Very early sprockets only bolted to the end of the drive shaft with a three hole washer. Armortek now use taper lock bushes to clamp the sprockets in place. This would also require a change of sprockets and drive gears, unless you can machine the slots and tapers required.

Adrian.

[Peter Silcock]

I also have one of the first issue Tigers yet to be built and have also been pondering what to do with it. As Adrian has pointed out you could end up replacing a large number of the components which seems a bit of a shame. Fortunately the Tiger is a relatively straightforward build and should you decide to build it straight out of the box you could always redo it at a later date if you decide you want a more detailed build. Just a thought. Even with a simple kit build the model looks spectacular with a good paint job. Think ive just talked myself into building mine as is. But you do need the upgrades to the motor mounts pointed out by Adrian. Incidentally did your kit come with the Electronize speed controllers (mine did)

[Pete Mallett]

Hi Guys,

thanks for the repsonses and some great stuff too! So, it looks like I shall be replacing the drive gears at a minimum and doing something extra to the drive mounts, good to know. As it happens I can't seem to find my drive gears, nor the limit switches, as neither seem to have been in the packs.

I don't intend to get too fancy with this build, just get it up and running with a good paint job. But obviously if there are any gotchas then it's best to know about them up front. The track links need machining to remove a piece from each link and the pins for the tracks are all rusted in their bags, some form of moisture ingress I guess. Given that rust blooms (notwithstanding the odd packers fingerprint) have been relatively minor on all the other parts this is a bit of a surprise. However, it may well be an easy thing to mount them in the chuck of a drill and spin them in some emery cloth to clean them up! We'll see how that works out!

Peter, yes I have four Electronize controllers but the odd thing that I am struck by is that the RX for the Sanwa seems to have rounded corners on the bottom edge of slots for the connectors, which makes them a little incompatible with the standard oblong shaped connectors, nothing that can't be solved with a little bit of ingenuity...I hope!

It'll be really nice to finally get it up and going and maybe add a blank firer to it for grins & giggles!

[Adrian Harris]

> and the pins for the tracks are all rusted in their bags

From memory, they were bare steel. They also used star washer on the end to hold them in place.

I'm sure Gill will be happy to sell you a set of the current plated and cross-drilled Tiger pins, plus the split pins to hold them in place

Adrian.

[Pete Mallett]

Again, thanks for that info Adrian and the pictures that you sent me. They'll help enormously. I noted that on the Comet the track pins were plated and with splits pints rather than the washers of yore and I was goign to enquire of Gill if they had any that woudl fit the old Tiger 1.

I must say it is gratifying to see that (from my experience with the Comet) the models from Armortek have come on leaps and bounds from that very first kit, as is only to be expected as lessons are learned and feedback assimilated. We shouldn't forget that Armortek were forging a whole new path in those days as no-one had ever before offered large scale, engineered metal tanks for the RC market. That the very first tank made had some teething issues is not only understandable but to be expected! As I said to you in my PM, after more than 10 years in it's packing crate I rather view this exercise as an attempt to get an 'antique' up to todays lofty standards whilst trying to maintain the essential qualities of the original! And let's face it I don't think the few issues that exist with this very old kit are going to be insurmountable! I'm rather looking forward to it, it should be fun!

[leesellars]

Peter

Make sure that the drive sprockets have been modified for the Taperlock system and that you have the spacers for mounting the motors on the side of the hull.

lee

[Pete Mallett]

Thanks Lee, duly noted!

Any chance of you popping back to OneSixth Uk mate?

Pete

[Dennis Jones]

Hi Pete,

Regarding the radio gear depends on what you want to control, I have now gone away from Futaba and am now using Spektrum radio gear, many more options and better customer service from Horizon. One of the main things is the failsafe on all channels which means the tank stops if you lose signal as opposed to Futaba which on most of their models is only on one channel. Just also make sure which radio you get you need at least five proportional channels if you are going to use sound. I currently use the Spektrum 8 channel set which also has the advantage that if you are going to use the TX on more than one model the receiver binds to each model so if you forget to turn off the other model, only the model selected will be controlled.

Dennis.

[Pete Mallett]

Thanks for that Dennis, I've seen something about those Spektrum radio's and did wonder if they were being used on tanks! A bit of investigation required methinks!

[colin fairweather]

hi Pete

I'm in the same boat as you I also have the first batch tiger 1

I have started to address some of the things I should have done at the start they will bug you after if you don't do them

1 the wobbly wheel syndrome jury's still out on this a bit of a task
2 change the swing arms to steel and then pin them the old aluminium ones could come loose and some weren't threaded right
3 if your a rivet counter lower rear deck a bit of a job with the steel deck
4 move the turret rotation motor out of the way its in the way when you remove the deck

as the guys have said try and get the modified type motor mounts its a must
their is a huge amount of torque from the first motors

regards

colin

[Pete Mallett]

Thanks for that Colin! Are you documenting your updates anywhere? Beaten paths are always best I find!

This morning I finished open and checking the inventory of all those big brown envelopes that everything arrived in all those years ago! Moi, slow to open my mail...never !

From pack 9 I am missing the 2 x driven gears (CE0302); 8 x 6002-RS bearings and 2 x Seal 23x1x54.

From pack 11 I am missing 1 x Idler End Cap (CE0308)

And from Option Pack 1 electronics packs I'm just missing the Limit Switches.

I'm still unclear what was in the mechanicals for Option pack 1 but I shall post a picture of it all sometime this afternoon. I've just primered two large steel pieces to mitigate against rust blooms. I think the longer one is a support for the deck plate and the short square one looks like it is a battery retaining plate. As soon as they've dried I'll put eveything together and photograph them. Maybe someone can id various parts for me from the pics!

Rgds

Pete

[Pete Mallett]

So, just as an update. Here's what I understand is a to-do list to get this very old kit up to modern standards...

1.) Upgrade the Motor mounts (essential)

2.) Upgrade Drive gears (or in my case obtain some as it looks as though I never received any) with bearings and seals.

3.) Taper Locks for the Sprockets, (mine appear to be keyed, as that what others had?)

4.) Machine Track links to remove mold piece to allow track links to roll without binding

5.) Replace track links or drill and plate existing pins (costings required)

6.) Replace Ally swing arms for steel swing arms

7.) Wobby Wheel syndrome. not 100% certain what that is yet. I do have an upgrade bag of washer to space the wheels because there was a proble with the wheels being too tight. But this appears to be a completely different problem.

8.) Move Turret rotation motor to a more convenient location

9.) Obtain Limit Switches

10.) Obtain an idler end cap.

11.) Purchase a better radio set, possibly Spektrum 8 Channel.

Is that about right? Anyone got anything else to add?

Rgds

Pete

[Adrian Harris]

> 6.) Replace Ally swing arms for steel swing arms

Armortek can probably supply a set of CNC machined ally ones. They don't need to be steel.

7.) Wobby Wheel syndrome.

I believe this was because the bearings went into some of the wheels, whilst others were free to rotate. That's why you sometimes see Tigers with the wheels going backwards, due to adjacent wheels and/or spacers rubbing together.

On the new system, the bearings go in the spacer, and the wheels bolt to the front and back, effectively making a solid unit.

Quite a few people machined down the steel spacers on the 2003 kits, to increase the clearance between the spacers and the wheels.

I believe Vince Abbott designed a way to include a third bearing on each axle, but I'm not sure how/where he did it.

The details may be in his Tiger build gallery on SmugMug.

Adrian.