Resin Products. Good, Bad or Ugly. Response!
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:27 pm
Hi Guys
As some of my products are resin based I have to answer a post that has been made in this forum that may have direct reflection on the quality of the resin parts I and others offer. In production of parts I only use the best material available to produce parts in low runs that best suit this small worldwide hobby. To date I have only had complaints about my rubber antenna bases from three customers that said their bases turned to jelly after a few months. This was determined to be a bad mix as I have sold well over 500 of these bases over the last few years and have only had these few problems.
The problems with resin outlined in the other post is entirely true when referring to the old oil based resins of the 80's and early 90's, still used by some manufactures in China. These resins after time would weep, deteriorate, turn soft or become brittle, they were also hard to paint as the oil base would reject to paint. Resin products have come a long way since then and the higher grade resins, which I use, do not have these problems. They have high tensile strength and high heat resistant and will not warp when exposed to the sun. When properly heat cured most of these resins will take heat of 150 degrees F or more. I do not heat cure all my resin products as model parts are not normally exposed to these high temperatures.
Regular modeling resins such as Vagabond, Smooth-On and Silpak are adequate for modeling parts and do not have them same problems as the early resins. However they do not have the strength and heat resistance the
BJB products have that I use.
I am not able to show you a heat test, but can tell you the resins from BJB are used to make Vac-form molds/tooling which produce thousands of parts under high heat conditions.
Strength tests I can show. Those of you that have visited my workshop can attest to the strength of the resin as I always try to show anyone visiting a drop test of my resin parts. I usually use the mudguards shown later as a drop test from six feet onto a stone floor and they just bounce.
Strength Test 1
Yoke from my SDAH51 trailer cast in BJB TC-891 A/B Resin
The yoke is 3/4" in diameter, with 25lbs weight it bends but does not break. Weights are white metal ingots 6lbs each and 1/2" aluminum plate is 7lbs. As this resin has a memory it returns to its normal shape when weight is removed. The trailer yoke used for test was cast about 5 years ago when I first offered the trailer with a complete cast yoke. It has a molding fault which is why I still have it.
Strength Test 2
These are mudguards from my SDAH51 trailer cast in BJB TC-802 A/B Resin.
They are 1/8" thick, I have cut out the back of the mudguard to use in test 2 to show better the strength of the resin. This mudguard was cast sometime last year.
Test 3
These are mudguards from my SDAH51 trailer cast in BJB TC-800 A/B Resin.
Using two of the mudguards without the back cut out I stood on them. That's 220lbs on those two mudguards, I have to lose weight. These mudguards were cast 3 to 4 years ago and have casting faults which I why I still have them.
For those that have to technical knowledge here are the tec sheets of the resins used in the tests. All are very similar, just gel time, de-mold time and heat cure time varies. Anyone wanting more details of the products can visit BJB web site at:
http://www.bjbenterprises.com/
Comments from other post.
1. Resin is a material that is very sensible to changes of temperature, mainly it will change form and measurement when it heats.
Only true of the early type resin, resins I use will maintain their shape and size up to around 120 degrees F and 150 degrees F or more when heat cured. See Heat Deflection Temperatures in Tec sheets above.
2. Furthermore resin changes its durability over time, after some years resin will become brittle.
Only true of early type resin, I have resin parts that were cast around seven years ago and are still the same as the day I cast them and will stay that way under normal conditions of use.
3. Resin is a very cheap material, only good in a technical sense for quickly manufacturing cheap parts with a bad fit, strong tendency to deform and no long durability. It’s in no way the right material for high class expensive scale models operating outdoor.
Not true. Current resins are not cheap, a gallon of the resins I use is $100.00 or more depending on the type. Here is part of the BJB web site about us.
"We are fortunate to be able to provide our products to a variety of industries. We formulated a urethane system for constructing Gotham City, supplied materials for a clear water-tower in the sky, furnished systems that help decide how your next automobile might look, delivered product for diagnostic medical equipment housings, and sold goods that went to sea for locating and photographing fish"
If the resins performs as stated in comment 3, do you think the automobile industry, medical industry and fishing industry would use it. Bad Fit???? That's a direct reflection on the capabilities of the master modelers in this hobby that offer resin parts.
I stand by my products and will always replace any defective parts free of charge, don't be fooled by someone with lack of knowledge of a product, it's a load of bull. Resin made semi and non functional parts are perfect for upgrading your tanks wether static or mobile at a reasonable price. Resin parts for RC are not advisable for driving gear such as wheels or tracks. I only offer a few resin parts as I prefer to work with metal, the resin parts I offer are mostly large parts the are not economical to cast in metal in short runs such as my cupolas.
If this post offends anyone I apologies, but someone had to set the record straight on behalf of the manufactures of resin products. To see the qaulity and detail of some resin parts available visit these websites, these guys along with myself have been offer this service to the hobby for many years. Do you thing we would still be in business if the above comments were true.
http://www.panzerwerk.com/
http://www.armorpax.com/Armorpax/
http://www.6thscaleicons.com/ (Check misc page for pictures of my resin cast SdAh51 Trailer) Over 50 sold over the last five years, no complaints.
Regards
Mike Stannard
6th Scale Icons Inc.
As some of my products are resin based I have to answer a post that has been made in this forum that may have direct reflection on the quality of the resin parts I and others offer. In production of parts I only use the best material available to produce parts in low runs that best suit this small worldwide hobby. To date I have only had complaints about my rubber antenna bases from three customers that said their bases turned to jelly after a few months. This was determined to be a bad mix as I have sold well over 500 of these bases over the last few years and have only had these few problems.
The problems with resin outlined in the other post is entirely true when referring to the old oil based resins of the 80's and early 90's, still used by some manufactures in China. These resins after time would weep, deteriorate, turn soft or become brittle, they were also hard to paint as the oil base would reject to paint. Resin products have come a long way since then and the higher grade resins, which I use, do not have these problems. They have high tensile strength and high heat resistant and will not warp when exposed to the sun. When properly heat cured most of these resins will take heat of 150 degrees F or more. I do not heat cure all my resin products as model parts are not normally exposed to these high temperatures.
Regular modeling resins such as Vagabond, Smooth-On and Silpak are adequate for modeling parts and do not have them same problems as the early resins. However they do not have the strength and heat resistance the
BJB products have that I use.
I am not able to show you a heat test, but can tell you the resins from BJB are used to make Vac-form molds/tooling which produce thousands of parts under high heat conditions.
Strength tests I can show. Those of you that have visited my workshop can attest to the strength of the resin as I always try to show anyone visiting a drop test of my resin parts. I usually use the mudguards shown later as a drop test from six feet onto a stone floor and they just bounce.
Strength Test 1
Yoke from my SDAH51 trailer cast in BJB TC-891 A/B Resin
The yoke is 3/4" in diameter, with 25lbs weight it bends but does not break. Weights are white metal ingots 6lbs each and 1/2" aluminum plate is 7lbs. As this resin has a memory it returns to its normal shape when weight is removed. The trailer yoke used for test was cast about 5 years ago when I first offered the trailer with a complete cast yoke. It has a molding fault which is why I still have it.
Strength Test 2
These are mudguards from my SDAH51 trailer cast in BJB TC-802 A/B Resin.
They are 1/8" thick, I have cut out the back of the mudguard to use in test 2 to show better the strength of the resin. This mudguard was cast sometime last year.
Test 3
These are mudguards from my SDAH51 trailer cast in BJB TC-800 A/B Resin.
Using two of the mudguards without the back cut out I stood on them. That's 220lbs on those two mudguards, I have to lose weight. These mudguards were cast 3 to 4 years ago and have casting faults which I why I still have them.
For those that have to technical knowledge here are the tec sheets of the resins used in the tests. All are very similar, just gel time, de-mold time and heat cure time varies. Anyone wanting more details of the products can visit BJB web site at:
http://www.bjbenterprises.com/
Comments from other post.
1. Resin is a material that is very sensible to changes of temperature, mainly it will change form and measurement when it heats.
Only true of the early type resin, resins I use will maintain their shape and size up to around 120 degrees F and 150 degrees F or more when heat cured. See Heat Deflection Temperatures in Tec sheets above.
2. Furthermore resin changes its durability over time, after some years resin will become brittle.
Only true of early type resin, I have resin parts that were cast around seven years ago and are still the same as the day I cast them and will stay that way under normal conditions of use.
3. Resin is a very cheap material, only good in a technical sense for quickly manufacturing cheap parts with a bad fit, strong tendency to deform and no long durability. It’s in no way the right material for high class expensive scale models operating outdoor.
Not true. Current resins are not cheap, a gallon of the resins I use is $100.00 or more depending on the type. Here is part of the BJB web site about us.
"We are fortunate to be able to provide our products to a variety of industries. We formulated a urethane system for constructing Gotham City, supplied materials for a clear water-tower in the sky, furnished systems that help decide how your next automobile might look, delivered product for diagnostic medical equipment housings, and sold goods that went to sea for locating and photographing fish"
If the resins performs as stated in comment 3, do you think the automobile industry, medical industry and fishing industry would use it. Bad Fit???? That's a direct reflection on the capabilities of the master modelers in this hobby that offer resin parts.
I stand by my products and will always replace any defective parts free of charge, don't be fooled by someone with lack of knowledge of a product, it's a load of bull. Resin made semi and non functional parts are perfect for upgrading your tanks wether static or mobile at a reasonable price. Resin parts for RC are not advisable for driving gear such as wheels or tracks. I only offer a few resin parts as I prefer to work with metal, the resin parts I offer are mostly large parts the are not economical to cast in metal in short runs such as my cupolas.
If this post offends anyone I apologies, but someone had to set the record straight on behalf of the manufactures of resin products. To see the qaulity and detail of some resin parts available visit these websites, these guys along with myself have been offer this service to the hobby for many years. Do you thing we would still be in business if the above comments were true.
http://www.panzerwerk.com/
http://www.armorpax.com/Armorpax/
http://www.6thscaleicons.com/ (Check misc page for pictures of my resin cast SdAh51 Trailer) Over 50 sold over the last five years, no complaints.
Regards
Mike Stannard
6th Scale Icons Inc.