222 drive train issues

Lawrence Godson · Post by **Lawrence Godson** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:52 pm

Has anyone else had problems getting power transfered through all of the differentials down to the wheels? First I had the center differential spinning fine under motor power but no transfer to the two main drive shafts. Then I've got the main drive shafts powered and turning but no transfer though the front and rear differentials to any of the wheels. .....and then it goes back to no transfer of power to the main drive shafts again. Sometimes it acts as if it is starting to move but then looses power transfer somewhere again. I've tightened all the grub screws again but no luck. Any suggestions on how to track this down. Thanks.

Patrick O'Donnell · Post by **Patrick O'Donnell** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:52 pm

Lawrence,
Are all the tyres in contact with the ground? with the full weight of the 222 on them?

Ad Wouterse · Post by **Ad Wouterse** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:23 pm

Hi Larry,

Strange problem. The only thing I noticed so far is the low friction resistance when compared with 1:5-6 scale racing cars.
Maybe Mark can answer your question. I for one would be interested to hear more.

Lawrence Godson · Post by **Lawrence Godson** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:45 pm

Yes all four wheels were fully on the ground and the only thing missing was the turret. I hope that just one wheel losing traction doesn't bring the whole car to a stop. I keep hoping that this is just another stupid oversite of something obvious on my part. I have gone over all the universal joints and the grub screws out at the wheels yet again. They are all tight . No slippage there. Very frustrating as I was hoping to show it off running at a reenactment tomorrow. Gill says Mark will answer me over the weekend.

Lawrence Godson · Post by **Lawrence Godson** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:56 am

Well, a friend came over and took the two main drive shafts out and the center Diff and then put them back in and I guess he did something right because the Diff. slipping is gone at least for now. He said that he did not see anything wrong while doing it. I still have an issue with the end cap unscrewing constantly on the idler gear and pushing it out of alignment with the motor pinion. It was super glued in but forced it's way out several times anyway. I've got a longer screw and will try that. Sorry to bother everyone but maybe my trials and goof ups will help others. Back to the basement!

Patrick O'Donnell · Post by **Patrick O'Donnell** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:05 am

Lawrence,
Yes one wheel losing traction will bring the 222 to a halt as the 222 is four wheel drive and all the power will go to that axle with the least resistance.. I understand the model car people call this "Diffing-out"
I have replaced all my grub screws with snap heads ( please see photo in gallery) and this seems to have reduced the problem of diffing-out on level ground. Also I have replaced the grease in the diffs with the most sticky diff oil I could find., it has the consistency of treacle, I think the American name for treacle is Molasis? This has reduced the diffing-out on rough terrain when one wheel will sometimes end-up well of the ground.

Post by **Armortek** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:19 am

Hi all

Patrick is absolutely correct. We have filled our demo 222 diffs with steam oil. Essentially the thicker the oil, the less inclined the diffs are to slip, and the better the off road performance. The compromise is that on tarmac you can expect greater tyre wear (in theory!).

Mark
Armortek

Ad Wouterse · Post by **Ad Wouterse** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:42 am

Hi guys,

So instead of the special ex-works differential oil we have to use baby-oil or treacle ? I can't find anything on this subject in the manual, or did I miss something

. Think that I will go for thicker diff oil and save the treacle for my sandwiches

Patrick, did you completely disassemble and clean the diffs or did you just drain the old fluid through the filler opening/grub screw ?

Larry, did you already replace the end cap by a washer ? This will allow the screw to go in deeper. Use locktite or threadlock to secure the screw, super glue is not really suitable.

Post by **Armortek** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:16 pm

Ad

You dont have to do anything. The advise given and the suggestions made, are about improvements to performance on rough ground.

Mark

Ad Wouterse · Post by **Ad Wouterse** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:03 pm

Hi Mark,

As mentioned in my reponse to Larry, I noticed the difference with big scale cars, especially the off-road types. These use adjustable differentials to make the vehicles suitable for any terrain and/or weather conditions (W&P 2007

). And don't you agree that the 222 is almost pleading to be taken out into the harshest terrain ?
The part about the alternative diff fluids was just a

.

Alfredo Campanini · Post by **Alfredo Campanini** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:59 pm

What happens if we block completely the center diff ? Is it possible ?
In my old Land Rover I could do it without problems driving off road and the 222 is not a racing car.

Patrick O'Donnell · Post by **Patrick O'Donnell** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:36 pm

Hello All,

The oil in the standard fitted diffs. is correct for flat terrain and it gives the best performance on road type surfaces.

Ad, If you are going to replace it with something like steam grease or as I have done with a Spanish product called Ultimate racing 100% silicone oil viscocity 100.000, which is the thickess I could find ( it has the consistency of a very sticky jelly type treacle), I would strongly suggest that the diff. is completeley disassembled and all components washed in petrol/gasoline. Be very careful as the parts inside the diff. are jewellery small and could easily be lost.

I have tried to find an adjustable limited slip-diff in the car/truck modeling world, but have been unsuccessful. I understand that the normal method in the model car/truck world is to "Tune" the diffs. by varying the viscossity of the oil in all the three diffs. Each diff. having a different viscosity oil for best performance. The permutations of how the three diffs. can be modified to give the required performance on different types of terrain must be manifold.

It all seemed a bit like Black Magic how they did this and as I wanted the best possible off-road performance, I settled on the thickest oil in all three.

Alfredo, I understand that the 4 X 4 British Ferret scout car only has a centre diff. and the front and rear axles are fixed?

Ad Wouterse · Post by **Ad Wouterse** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:06 pm

Hi Patrick,

Finding an adjustable differential or, even better, a TorSen type is one thing. Finding one that will fit the 222 without the need to rebuild the chassis is another.
Basically a TorSen type makes more sense for an off-road vehicle as it leads the power to the shaft/wheel with the highest friction. On the other hand it requires a lot of space and will cost you an arm and a leg.
I have been playing around with some old FG diffs, but they are way to big and require a different type of drive shafts. So that is a no go

.

100 K oil that is extreme

. Probably as close to a full-locking diff as you can get

. I can't remember ever using more than a 30 K in the centre diff for an off-road. I guess a 7-10-3 K set-up for the front-centre-rear diff should do the job on the 222.

David Ward · Post by **David Ward** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:15 am

Hello Patrick

Other way round! The Ferret has diffs in the transmission between left and right but not between front and back. If it was solid left and right it would never turn a corner!
To minimise transmission 'wind up' between front and back (ie the tendency for a slight difference in rotation front and back) you have to make sure the tyres on one side have equal wear and the operators manual also recommends that after a lot of road use to either drive it on gravel or bump it up a kerb to release any 'wind up'.

How would the 222 perform with no centre diff?

David

Lawrence Godson · Post by **Lawrence Godson** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:38 am

Ad,

I'm using a longer screw. ...and with locktight it is holding so far. I also would like to know more about changing the lubricant. ----how to take the Diffs. apart.
Thanks

222 drive train issues

222 drive train issues

Spot on!

Differential