Neil's early Tiger 1 (2023)

[neil graham]

Slow progress this week, not enough time as well its been very hot so making time in the shed slightly unpleasant for long periods.

I have very loosely reassembled the 'mostly' primed core lower hull components. Missing a few angles here and there, but mostly covered in a complete coat.

Here is part of my production line for the wheels:

Motorcycle jack is about to go on the lift table for good soon (top left in photo)....I have the MDF bolted to it with the rubber matting ready to be stuck to it. In the meantime I am using the lift table as a drying station.

I was coating both sides of the wheels but largely ignoring the rim, but of course the rims are getting some etch primer on them. I only thought once I was at this stage, with about 1/3 of the wheels done that this is probably a poor decision.

Either I should coat the wheels all fully with the etch primer, OR I should have masked the rims off so the loctite 480 will adhere to the metal. I have tried to find advice about if the loctite should be bare metal to rubber and if the primer will interfere or not.... but I haven't found it. Any opinions? I can sand the rims down to remove the etch primer..... or give them all a thorough etch primer coating.

[Derek Attree]

Hi Neil
I always use 480 to bare metal so mask those rims.

Regards

Derek

[Dave Goodwin]

Agreed - the description by LocTite for the 480 is that it cures in contact with metal in the absence of air. I've been masking my rims with that in mind.

[neil graham]

Small update.

The rims are now all sanded down with 120 grit paper, it made short work of the acid etch primer. Any opinions on if I should I sand it again using a higher grit before applying the 480 loctite?

Rim all sanded down

I decided to paint the base with the red oxide primer so that I can then put it on the table. Its a bit big and awkward and I just need to get it out of the way. There are no fake welds and the whole chassis is still very loose, the screws will be tightened up during fitting of the suspension....I may come back and do fake welds on the base at a later point but I doubt it, its simply never going to be visible. I am not going to attempt to seal the chassis or replace the underside bolts with countersunk versions, though I do currently intend to paint it.
I am learning quickly how to use these rattle cans better and the red oxide went on beautifully, no overspray at all yet 100% coverage (the visible overspary at the bottom is from the etch primer, I didn't feel the need to sand it down...see reasoning above ). I used my little plugs again but in the end they were probably not required as there is almost no red on the side panels.

Freshly painted and still shiny!

I have started the scary part of putting all the suspension together and rapidly discovered that I need to go buy a small vice. I simply havent got enough grip to get the smaller axle into the arm. Lots of swarf from the bigger axle as well so there may be some of those that also need the vice.

Obviously I can see the grub screw holes to hold the axles in place, but I wish to ask others if they think a mild threadlocker is also advisable?

Dammit, I need a vice

[Tim Carr]

Remember the grub screw is to hold the arm at the angle that you set it for. It may or may not need to be adjusted. I'm at that stage with my #131 Tiger right now. I did notice the following thread about "dog point " screws being used instead of the grub screws.

viewtopic.php?t=9642&start=15

About 2/3 of the way down. I'm still thinking about what I'm going to do.

That said the non arm side I think I'll use lock tight and screw the grub screw in hard as there are not any threads to mess up.

Leaving the rim at 120 grit may give you a better surface to lock to rather than sanding down finer.

Thanks for sharing your build.

Later Tim

[Tim Carr]

Tire threads

viewtopic.php?t=5949

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5817

I had just found these and was reviewing them yesterday.

Good Luck

Later Tim

[neil graham]

I had never heard of dog screws, but I like the idea a lot! I'm also going to use the threadlocker.

RE: tyres: "Both surfaces should be thoroughly roughened".... ie, exactly what I have already done! This is exactly what I wanted/needed to read! I will sand the rest of the wheels that I haven't even started to prime yet so they are all the same. Thanks for sharing those links!

[Tim Carr]

Be Happy.
On the Mid production tiger I just bought the last owner screwed in the grub screws on the arms then used a filler over the top and then primed the arm setup. So, now I'm thinking go ahead and use and "HOPE" they are set correctly at that 30-degree angle OR "TRY" to remove and take apart.
I will be thinking about what to do and might start on them next year. Ok, less than ten days to think what to do.

Also, you might want to watch out for body/skin oils on the rim surface. (Look at your pics) As it might keep things from sticking well.

Looks like we are all in about the same stages in some ways.

Enjoy the build.

Later Tim

[Dave Goodwin]

So far, that black 480 LocTite has been a beast. It sticks like nobody's business and pretty darn quickly, so don't dawdle with it. It also tends to get all over the place, so wear gloves and try not to spread the squeeze-out too much. Have a rag handy. I have done a couple of wheels in a couple of different ways and have now decided that I will install the tires on raw wheels, then sand off any LocTite squeeze-out, mask the tires off and then paint.

I tried putting a tire on after priming and another one on after color coating, but both ended up with the black adhesive smeared all over the rim, requiring sanding off and repainting. Thus the decision to just apply the tires to the bare wheels. It's tedious but not difficult to mask the tires for painting. My process is now to install the tires, mask them off, prime the wheels, color coat the inside of the paired road wheels, assemble the wheels and hubs with masking for the bearings, etc, then prime and color coat the assembly. You could easily skip the inside surfaces of the paired wheels, as they'll never really be seen, but I'm painting them fully.

[neil graham]

That's solid advice about the ordering of painting/gluing. I haven't as yet glued any rubber so that is fabulous to know in advance.

RE: painting unseen surfaces, I am in complete agreement. I won't be weathering or anything like that but I like the idea of protecting surfaces. The lesser seen surfaces should probably get the maximum protection!

EDIT: Also, I am a big fat greasy man....and its summer here I am definitely degreasing all surfaces before priming/painting. Nitrile gloves get put on during painting, loctiting and general assembly of components.....but not otherwise, I am just too sweaty.

[neil graham]

Originally I had an elaborate plan to stabilise my jack on the lift table. This was due to the lazy-susan I could get here was a bit on the small side. In the end I simply have a few pieces of thin MDF, I am not going to glue/screw them....it simply isn't necessary,

Rubber mat (it was a square rubber tile I cut roughly in half) doesnt completely cover the countersunk MDF board, but its close enough. It has adhesive underneath and obviously gravity is going to help keep it in place

[neil graham]

I ended up with a bigger vice than what I had intended to buy as the shop didn't have any stock of the smaller one, but it wasn't much more so I'm happy with the purchase.

It is currently installed in the shelf racking as I didn't want it getting in the way on the table. There is only the one bolt installed so I can easily swivel it around so it doesn't protrude. It certainly did the job RE: tightening the axles and removing the swarf, I can now screw/unscrew them by hand.

This will do for now

I busted open the torsion rods pack and how the grubs hold them now makes sense to me! They are flattened at each end so that the grub will line up flat at both the axle and the end piece. SO all grubs on the swing arm, axle and ends should all be tight before installing the end into the torsion bar. Once the ends are roughly positioned into the torsion bar, then those ends will be rotated in the torsion bar until we get the 30-35% angle without wheels on..... it is only then that each end is tightened using the two screws to lock it into place on the torsion bar.

Have I got this completely wrong??

So, I sanded & degreased the swing arms & axles, used the mild threadlocker on both axles and made sure they were hand tight. I will add the grubs tomorrow and tighten them all the way. We do not want the axles moving out of the swing arm at all.

Waiting grubs & primer. I might add filler to the grub holes.

EDIT: I have realised looking at others builds that I should re-mask my axles, I have covered the bit the sits inside the side panels..... always good to check back and try not make serious mistakes (well, more than I already am)

[Tim Carr]

Vice
Use Aluminum or copper or other soft metal and make a set of set in jaws. Or else your parts may get tooth marks from your vise.

Later Tim

[neil graham]

Thanks Tim, I actually used some old plastic membership cards to spread the load out.....and I knew the bits I was clamping are not visible or in contact with other bits.

Solid progress on the axle & swing arm assemblies this morning. They are now all sanded, degreased, loctited in & masked ready for priming.

Prep all done

However, I did encounter a few minor things and thought I would put it out there for comment and advice.

Issue 1: Rust
This looks like rust to me, it was only present on one of the axles but there seemed to be a fair bit of it.

Hmmmm, rust

Issue 1: Solution
I sanded the axle until I couldn't see the rust anymore. Most of the area affected will sit out of the torsion bar, but not all of it....so I cant prime it all.
Any advice on what else I should do?

Its like magic!

Issue 2: Grub screws sit well out
Obviously by design but I was curious to see what others have done, so far only one set of grubs have been installed. I am leaning towards just leaving them in place and priming & painting over the top. If I ever have to do maintenance it will be much easier and these parts are all hidden behind 3000 wheels & tracks anyway!

Prouder than a man on his wedding night

PS. Sorry if I am spamming the forum.
I am thoroughly enjoying the build and require constant validation (at least according to my wife )

[Dave Goodwin]

The suspension arm is mostly going to ride in the brass bushings in the lower hull, if I am reading things correctly. I am intending to lightly grease those contact areas. I know ArmorTek recommends not to do so or to use a dry lube, but I'm not comfortable with that. We used dry lube in the Air Force and it needed to be refreshed frequently. Those arms are going to rotate a lot, and I just don't see dry lube, or no lube, being a good idea. A couple of mine have rust spots also, and like you I simply sanded and polished them up until it was gone.

As for the grub screws, I just didn't like the look of those longer ones sticking up like that, so I ordered replacements of 4mm and 5mm to try out. I settled on the 4mm, which sits just slightly proud.

I used 638 LocTite on both of the suspension arm axles and the grub screws, as I have no intention of ever taking them out unless they wiggle themselves free. If something should ever break, I plan to replace the complete suspension arm assembly so I am not concerned with being able to take it apart.

When building the assemblies, make sure not to LocTite on the torsion bar end until you've put the torsion bar through the hull. When I was mocking one up, I attached the torsion bar end to the bar with the grub screws and then realized the end wouldn't fit through the hull bushings. That would have been ugly had I really tightened and secured the screws. Lesson learned for the actual assembly later