Chris' Tiger

Forum for discussion relating to Tiger 1, Mid, Early, Late Production and Sturmtiger
Kent Wiik

Post by Kent Wiik »

Hi Chris,

Bevere here as start improving in one end is the beginning of a loooong march but boy what a good feeling when it is done :D
Here is a good photo showing the part.

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Please note that the rear most bolts are NOT in line. :shock:
Visible is also how big the plates round the filling cap was.
Also note that the slopes are longer and ends hear the middle bolt.
The slope can easily be done with epoxy but then your idea to keep it in "the all metal look" is lost.

Sorry, hope I didn’t destroy your weekend now... :oops:

Kind regards
Kent

Brian Leach
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Post by Brian Leach »

Kent, Roland, Chris,

It is looking as though we may need to cast a new set :D

Brian

Kent,

Okay, you guys can have fun with me now :)

Is that your 1/6 Tiger in the picture, or do you have that missing 1/1 tiger from Russia sitting in your garage? (probably beside your 1/1 Panther)

Seriously though, where is the picture of the rear deck from. it looks as though you have a model AT gun and a full scale motorcycle in the backround there.

Signed, confused :?
Brian


Reasonable people act reasonably!

Kent Wiik

Post by Kent Wiik »

Oh dear, now you got me Brian!

Yes, that’s a photo of my 1:1 Late Tiger 1 and I also have a 1:1 Panther hidden from the world in my shed.
Got them from a friendly Russian and I am about to restore them to absolute ww2 standard just to show every museum how things aught to be done.
The tanks are painted in TS-3 as it is the best paint money can buy....JUST KIDDING! :D

No, that photo above is from the Munster Sturmtiger.
The deck is the same as "normal Tigers" and is the best one I have regarding this matter.

Kind regards
Kent

Christoffer Ahlfors
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Post by Christoffer Ahlfors »

Kent Wiik wrote: Sorry, hope I didn’t destroy your weekend now... :oops:
Whaddayaknow! I just checked with Jentz and Doyle and they concur in both drawings and photos. Well, the holes are too big anyway. I'll go and play with the engine hatch a little more. :)

Cheers,
/Chris
A little too much is about right...

Christoffer Ahlfors
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Post by Christoffer Ahlfors »

While we are at it - isn't the rear plate supposed to follow the contours of the rear gratings? The void between the gratings and the side armor happens to be exactly the difference between the actual and prototype armor thicknesses.
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The visor fit really poorly. Is yours this flimsy?
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The engine hatch I go to when I get stuck in other parts of the project. Ah, what a piece! Perfect edges, the weight, the clunk when it closes!
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However, I think it sits too low. I believe it's supposed to be level with the gratings. This is probably also why the hinges look like Lego bricks. They are supposed to be rather sleek.
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Perfect press fit! I needed that!
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I get to open another parcel!
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So this is a torsion bar? And it's supposed to twist?!? :shock: I believe that when I see it!
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Some of the threads are rather coarse and need a little cleanup:
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Fitting of an axle assembly. It fits perfectly!
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A diligent day's work:
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Cheers,
/Chris
A little too much is about right...

Christoffer Ahlfors
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Post by Christoffer Ahlfors »

Those of you who have followed this story have seen that I've been nitpicking rather heavily with my attention buried deeply into small details. However, it must be understood, as all you other Tiger owners are fully aware but others may not be, that the Armortek Tiger is a world class model. In fact, I believe no one else has done a model of this kind better. That would pretty much make it a world record! :D

It is also not necessary to make any modifications (not that I have come across yet, anyway) at all - the stock version would produce a very nice looking and credible model indeed. I have not come that far myself, but judging from the quality, look and fit of the parts, that would most certainly be the case. The parts usually have a comfortable press or slip fit and are a joy to assemble.

I say this because I don't want to give anyone the wrong impression. I cherish my Tiger and would not want to trade it for anything. I would gladly recommend an Armortek kit any day and thank Gill and Mark for their service-, helpfulness and dedication to provide us with fantastic kits that are a privilege to own! The Tiger is the most fun model project I've ever done and for me, part of the fun is to see if there are any improvements I could carry out to make it still better than the stock model. I'm torn between completing it as soon as possible and to make the project last forever. A reasonable compromise is that I will make some mods now that I can see easily how they would best be done and go back later for others when I feel the urge.

I'm no trained machinist and the more experienced have probably spotted some beginner's mistakes in my story. This thread is not THE way to do this kit but rather MY way, which I hope can provide ideas and inspiration to others.

So, bear with me as we plunge into the challenges and joys of the next part of this very exciting project that will include backdating it to a c:a April '43 model. :D

Cheers,
/Chris
A little too much is about right...

Christoffer Ahlfors
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Torsion bars

Post by Christoffer Ahlfors »

I have access to smaller, used UPS batteries (that are replaced on a schedule, whether bad or not). As I believe quite many of these can be fitted just about anywhere in the hull and thereby giving longer run time, it's my plan to squeeze in as many as practical. This would most likely increase the weight beyond standard.

It appears that the weights differ quite much between different people's builds (depending on options, third party stuff, modifications etc), which leads me to think that it would suffice to just increase the "pretension" angle of the torsion bars rather than change them for heavier gauge.

Does anyone have an idea how much the "pretension" angle of the torsion bars should be increased to cope with increased weight?

Thanks,
/Chris
A little too much is about right...

Steve Norris
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Post by Steve Norris »

Hi Christoffer.
I would stick with the standard suspension angles, 35 degrees if i remember correctly, the reason i say this is that when your hull is complete you can stand on it and there will be very little suspesion defection. I think the weight of additional batteries will not make much of a difference provided you keep them spread around the vehicle CofG (dont put all the weight at the back or it will sit down !)
Hope this helps.
Steve

Christoffer Ahlfors
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Post by Christoffer Ahlfors »

Thanks, Steve!
This is exactly the kind of knowledge/experience I was after.

Yes, spreading the load is another opportunity with more and smaller batteries. I'll do that!

Thanks a million!
/Chris
A little too much is about right...

Christoffer Ahlfors
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Hubs

Post by Christoffer Ahlfors »

Moving on to the wheels, starting with the hubs. I started with scrubbing them in water to remove any traces of soap from the deburring process and let them dry. Don't know if this is really necessary, but in case it would be a problem for paint (clear, in my case) adherence. Better safe than sorry.

I put CA (cyanoacrylate adhesive, a k a "superglue") in a ring in the hub like this. The reason is that I wanted it to be all around the bearing without flowing into it. Adding it afterwards would give less control of where the glue flowed or not flowed. Now I know its firmly glued all round. No glue got into any of the bearings.
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The bearings are all a beautiful slip fit into the hubs:
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There are two bearings per hub/axle. The finished hub:
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Doing the hubs went fast, but there sure are a lot of wheels on this model! Poor Mark must have been dreaming wheels when he made the fifty sets. :shock: Anyway, the hubs fit perfectly on the first try:
Image

To take a break from the wheels for a moment, I'll interrupt with some different work next.

Cheers,
/Chris
A little too much is about right...

Christoffer Ahlfors
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Engine hatch hinges

Post by Christoffer Ahlfors »

Next, I'll do a rather easy mod that does wonders for appearance. :)

The stock engine hatch hinges are rather generic looking:
Image
However, if viewed from above, they appear to have the correct dimensions, although my drawings in Jentz & Doyle are rather small.

The prototype hinges have beveled sides. If you trust you have a steady hand, this mod could be done with a file. As I don't trust mine :( and happen to have a mill that I'm happy to put to use again after years of collecting dust :) , I'll take a more cumbersome but exacting approach. First I try to find the correct angle:
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This is it!
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Aluminum really is a charm to work with! I'm used to brass from the model trains world, which is much harder. Milling off this much (in my 1:87 world of reference...) material can be done in just a few passes and even my little rather flimsy mill is steady enough for the job.
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The result:
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Compare with the first picture - a small detail that makes great difference!
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This was fun! :D You will obviously want to fill the holes in the hinges before painting... :)

Cheers,
/Chris
A little too much is about right...

Christoffer Ahlfors
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Torsion bars à la Chris

Post by Christoffer Ahlfors »

I've been a little worried about filing the torsion bars. It turned out to be more difficult than expected.

First I would strongly :!: advise anyone who hasn't done this before to take the following two precautions before filing the fixed end: :idea:
1 Seat the grub screws properly: If you have a sturdy vise, clamp the bar and swing arm in it securely by the bar. Now, loosen the grub screws slightly and apply a slight clockwise torque with your hand. See if the swing arm gives way a little. While still having the slight torque applied, tighten one grub screw and allow the swing arm to follow back until it finds a restful position. Tighten the grub screws as much as you dare. If the swing arm is not back in its original position now, you've managed to find a couple of degrees which it would have yielded under load! The idea with the process is to find the position where the grub screws are exactly perpendicular to the flat or slightly to the clockwise position of it. Any error to the other side is disastrous.


2 Torquing the swing arms to the true bottom of the thread: With the swing arm and torsion bar still in the steady grip of the vise, try to apply torque with your hand to the swing arm corresponding to full load plus a little extra for margin. Chances are that the thread you had already pulled tight will go yet a few degrees. Again disastrous if not found now!

On to the torsion bar filing: I didn't make a jig for the angles. Instead, I put the assembly horizontally in a vise with the axle end resting on the bench:
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and with the angle correct, measuring from the top of the vise. 10mm from the top would produce the correct angle in my setup:
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Here is the tricky part when doing this by hand. Try to find a horizontal reference that you can hold the file parallel to. In this case, the joint in the hull happened to be perfect!
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Start with filing only a slight flat:
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and install to check the angle:
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After adjusting the 10 mm to 7, the angle came out perfect:
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Now file the flat to its final depth. For the first three or four bars, use three to four iterations to arrive at the exact angle, two for the rest. One more take is necessary here:
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That's more like it!
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As perfect as I could possibly make it! :D
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The sad thing about this part is that I was unaware of the precautions mentioned above and fell prey to both of them. :( As a result, I had to file a bit more to get the proper angle back and now the flats are deeper than intended.

Yet another last thought that I've seen covered elsewhere too: Grub screws have a cup-shaped butt, designed to dig into steel and it sure does - both from the pressure of tightening the screw, but also from the tremendous torque exerted under load :shock: You will want to either file the grub screws flat or better, replace them with ordinary Allen head screws with flat bottoms to take full advantage of the available thread depth. This way, the screws can't dig into the steel. It must be remembered that the forces are tremendous here and that the bars are in fact 5 or 5,5 mm in diameter and it takes quite a man to twist that! :shock:
A little too much is about right...

Christoffer Ahlfors
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Motion pack!

Post by Christoffer Ahlfors »

I love this year! Santa came by again the other day! :D

This is what he brought:
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Digging through the box, I began to realize why it's expensive...
The control units:
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The sensitive electronics is contained in very professional and good looking enclosures that, although not hermetically sealed, will provide ample protection against mechanical and electrical mishaps. Oh, ya, my workbench was full with other stuff, so the only unoccupied surface I could find, was the deck of the Tiger. 8)
The motors don't look very big on photos looking into the belly of a Tiger. I'm not sure if this photo can quite convey the size either...
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I would say very close to the size of the starter of my Buick! That should get things moving... :wink:

I can't wait to get this installed! But first there is more work to do.

Cheers,
/Chris
A little too much is about right...

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