Pete's Panzer III 006

[Pete Nash]

I did It wrong again, didn't I dad?

Fitting the Pannier to the Turret, found the bracket holes didn't match up, thought of every other way of fixing it except the right one.

I interpreted the bracket as the long arm outside the turret with the short arm pointing outwards in line with the turret profile, but the holes didn't line up so asked Kian whether the solution is to drill holes in the turret.

The solution is that the long arm of Bracket CL0437 goes INSIDE the pannier. So assembly order is:
M4 X 25 CSK through CL0437
Secure CL0437 to pannier with M4 x 16 Hex and M4 Nut
Fit pannier to turret
Secure in place with M4 nuts on inside of turret

Here is Kian's Image he sent me, note the Armorpax Extras

Pete

PS For some reason the image has been flipped upside down,

[Pete Nash]

006 didn't get 'slimed' but it did get 'darkgelbed'

A warm day with little wind here in Suffolk so out came the Panzer, compressor and spray gun.

[Oli Dainton]

Nice, taking shape now.

[Pete Nash]

Latest bit of work.

Doors courtesy of Field of Armour
White metal pistol port and lifting lug courtesy of Dave Dibbs at Armorpax
rain gutter from my own metals box.
Fillers courtesy of Plastic Padding Chemical Metal and Humbrol.

I can assemble the kits and do simple mods, but rely on people with more skills than me to make the hard bits.
Although I did break (very careless) one of the Field of Armour door hinges, in a rare flash of inspiration (?) I made a mould of candle wax with one of the others and used Chemical Metal to make another.

[Pete Nash]

After some more work here 'he' is at the moment. Just the last bits of fiddling and fettling to do.

A home made rack for 'Jerry cans' and Timber , a piece of unbleached linen for a shelter, two poles and a pirce of wood for a 'table' and a bicycle from MartIn Diessel - (not much use in sand know) and a 'sniper' passenger.

Starter cover, pry bar and on the other side the starter handle courtesy of Martin Diessel. jack block intake grills tow ropes and turret doors from Soldier of Fortune

Just waiting for time and a decent day to coincide so I can get 'him' painted.

Apparently Germans called their machines masculine rather than the British feminine.

[Oli Dainton]

Great progress Pete, thanks for sharing.

[Pete Nash]

For anyone still building their Panzer III......

I've had a set-back. Up to now I have been building mine on a wooden frame under the bottom pan so that there has been no weight on the road wheels.
Yesterday I lifted it off the frame and after a while the suspension collapsed.

I swore!!!!
I took everything off the upper hull and turned the tank upside down. Made myself a coffee, read a chapter in a book, and came back to the problem.

I removed the bottom, exposing the torsion bars, and had another think. It was a simple task removing the M4 X 8 CSK screws.

I found it possible to undo the M6 x 25 CSK screws grub screw holding the Suspension Shaft CL0222 and withdraw the whole torsion rod and Road wheel without removing any other on the opposite side.
BEFORE doing so I set the Swing Arm to the appropriate angle and marked CL0222 where the M5 x 8 Grub screw would tighten on the shaft.
It was there that I ground a flat onto CL0222. Hopefully when it all goers back together and back onto its wheels, the grub screw impinging on a flat surface, instead of a round surface, will help to keep the suspension shaft at the correct 20 degree angle.

[Brian Ostlind]

Hi Pete, lovely thread. Setbacks are a given. I have been playing with my Tiger suspension and had a few setback myself. One thing that helped me was using MIP hex drivers. They are a tight fit and very strong. Before that I broke a lesser driver.




Keep it up!

Brian

[Oli Dainton]

Hi Pete, luckily I found that the grubs slipped when I was building the suspension the first time, so also grounded the collar flat to fix issue. Seems still a little play here and there but hoping that all works itself out when tank load spread across wheels.

I am still way behind you though!

Is good to see that we can access the working through the floor too.

[Adrian Harris]

I'm surprised they sagged with both the end screw and the grub screw.

Did you have the star washer in the bottom of the recess ?

I've been working on converting my Tiger 131 kit so the grub screw goes in from the top, but I have to admit I thought most of the clamping force was from the screw which went through the hull side.

The Tiger is a bit different, as the arms face in different directions on each side of the hull, so the weight of the tank keeps them all tightened. Was it one side which sagged, or both ?

Adrian.

[Oli Dainton]

Did you have the star washer in the bottom of the recess ?

No mention of a star washer in instructions as far as I can see... Can see how that would help!

[Adrian Harris]

That's odd. They're listed as "M6 Shakeproof Washer" in the StuG instructions, which was the first of this line of kits to get the adjustable suspension.

Adrian.

[Pete Nash]

No M6 Shakeproof washer supplied or indicated in the build instructions pages 6 and 11

Only instruction is on Page 11 to "use Both Screws To Fix Swing Arm Angle To Hull. Tighten Very Firmly".

By 'Both Screws' I believed to be the M6 X 25 CSK and the M5 X 8 Grub Screw.

I can't blame anyone else but myself for the Road wheels to collapse, I may not have tightened the screws 'Firmly enough', despite tightening them as much as I could. Not everyone has a 'gorilla' grip nor the strength of one.

If I'd thought hard enough about it I should have realised that using a grub screw on a round bar to stop it turning was not a 100% recipe for success and filed flats during initial assembly. Its somthing I'll bear in mind for the next time it comes along.

Can't blame the designers as they would have had to match flats on the Suspension Shafts, CL0222, to the left and right sides.

Pete

[Nige Dalton]

Hi Pete

There is a similar topic at the end of 'Oli's build and question thread'. He and myself seem to be at a similar point in the build, but I haven't tightened the suspension yet so not had any weight on the torsion bars. I was considering fitting a star washer, so its nice to know that was how it was done on the Stug release.

As an aside did you set the 20 degree suspension arm angle with the weight of the tank on the suspension or with no weight on the suspension? I cant decide how to interpret the instructions on this matter as I guess the build instructions are just for the basic model before adding the considerable extra weight of the motion pack and batteries.

Nige

[Pete Nash]

Nige

I set the angle without weight on the suspension. When I re-set it I added a few degrees to account for the weight.

Personally I don't think a Star washer under the M6 X 25 CSK Screw will work. The Problem is not the M6 screw turning, its CL0222 turning on the screw.
Also, The suspension arm washer, CL0223 overlaps the the CSK screw head. If you insert a star washer under the screw head, the head will be outside the Hull Side, so CL0223 won't sit against the hull.

As far as I can see, the setup is that the M6 CSK screw holds the Torsion Shaft in the hull, and the M5 Grub Screw inserted through the hull bottom stops CL0222 from turning with the rest of the suspension. On one side the right hand thread will tighten as CL0222 tries to rotate with the shaft, but on the other it will try to undo.
With CL0222 fixed and CL0205 free to rotate, Shaft CL0206 resists the rotation thus giving the torsional suspension.
The Weakness in the system, as modelled, is the small area of the Grub screw in contact with CL0222. Flats have been ground at each end of Shaft CL0206 for grub screws to stop it rotating in CL0222 and CL0205.

A belt and Braces approach would be to drill and tap and extra thread in Suspension Bars CL0109 and CL0111 for another grub screw, Or as I have done, file/grind flats on each CL0222 so that the grub screw has a flat instead of curved surface to tighten onto.