Tiger 131 In South Wales

[davidwilkins]

Hi All,

I gone back to working on the pannier floor angle plate l have looked at some excellent ideas on the forum on the subject but I have decided to carry on with my original idea as I have spent quite a bit of time cutting these plates to size and thickness.

The semi circles cut into these plate vary quite a bit so I used a average measurement and got what I felt was the right look.

Regards

David

[Paul Wills]

Nice bit of milling there David, and it looks good in place.

Paul.

[simon_manning]

what a nice neat job, regards simon manning.

[davidwilkins]

Paul, Simon, thanks for your kind comments always appreciated. The rivets have just arrived in the post so I will fit these and then start on some weld simulations.

Regards

David

[Stephen White]

David, belated admiration for the machining you've done to produce the scalloped edges. I bought a step drill a while back and wondered if I might ever get it use it. Now it has a use, if in several years time.....

When you come to do the welds, have you considered alternative methods? I've found the traditional Milliput method lacking in two ways. Firstly it's boring and time consuming to do. Secondly, unless you take infinite care and use something as small as a syringe needle, the results can look pretty crude and out of scale. Fabrice put me onto using fabric paint, which comes in bottles which can be squeezed directly onto the joint and if you use a stippling motion, you get get quite a good simulation of weld beads. You can also adjust it for longer than Milliput. It doesn't dry as hard but in a protected place, it works well.

All the best. Stephen

[davidwilkins]

Stephen, your thoughts and ideas are always vary much appreciated. As regards the stepped drill bit, my first thoughts was to use a boring head to cut out scalloped edges but then my neighbour suggested the stepped drill bit and a neat job it bid.

With regards the weld simulations I have been thinking about what else would do the job as you say it is boring and it does take me a long time to do. When I looked at the Centurion welds they where generally fairly smooth with a curved waved like lines this was on the horizontal and vertical welds. On the Tiger tank the welds were similar to the cent on the horizontal level but the vertical ones on the Tiger were completely different with no Patten at all I am assuming welding then was still in its early days of development.

Thanks for the info I will look into this further.

Regards

David

[davidwilkins]

Hi All,

Progress has been a bit slow with the weld simulations I have tried liquid metal and fabric paint but was not very pleased with the results so I went back to the milliput.

After looking at photos of Tiger 131 welds I tried to copy the relevant weld patterns with what I felt was a reasonable image.

I have also added a couple of photos (Gill, hope you don't mind) of a special day out with the Boss, when I was given permission to order a Tiger 131 kit there was a deal done with Minister of finance (the Boss) she got to fly a spitfire.

In was an absolutely brilliant day worth every penny.

Regards

David

[Paul Wills]

Hi David,

Wow lucky Gill. To be honest, I am not sure who got the better deal there. I like the ministry of finance title, I have one as well, she is there to remind me I no longer earn as much as I want to spend

Those welds look real, I had to look twice at the painted version to make sure it wasn't a comparison photo. Can you give away your tooling and technique?

I have been using the three sculpting tools below, but it doesn't come close to yours.

I found that by working backwards the circular ribs were created.

Paul.

[davidwilkins]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your kind words, as regards the tools that I use for making the weld simulations they are just a old set screwdrivers ranging from 1.5mm to 6mm blade width. The tips are rounded off similar to the tools that you are using. I have also added a couple of old worn ball ended hex keys 1.5mm to 2.5mm.

Some of the welds on tiger 131 are very rough with very little pattern to try and copy, so this is where I used the hex keys first and just gently used the ball end all over the weld to give stiple finish. Then I would use the rounded screwdrivers to gently press in a waved pattern or I would use the back of a knife to cut thin narrow lines to represent what I call a multi bead weld.

I hope this makes some sort of sense, hopefully I will make down to tankmod day and we will meet up and have a chat.

Regards

David

[davidwilkins]

Hi All,
I have now painted my model of Tiger 131 in a red primer and am now ready to apply the base coat. This where my problem starts. I was hoping someone will able to advise me on the right colour.
My aim is try and build this model as close as I can to the real tank that is currently in the museum, but I am confused about what would be the best base colour to use. Should the base colour be dunkelgrau or dunkelgelb and where would the the best place to purchase the paint from?
Any advise on this issue would be very much appreciated.
Regards
David

[Adrian Harris]

I doubt there is any Dunkelgrau left on 131, if indeed it ever had any.

Have a look through Stephen White's encyclopedic Panzer III thread as I believe he has painted that tank in the same colours as 131 and, knowing Stephen, there should be reams of research for the colours he used

Adrian.

[Stephen White]

David, Adrian flatters to deceive but I appreciate the sentiment! Just seen his post as I was writing this.

There is a lot on this on the web. I think you'll find some posts on the subject elsewehere in the Tiger section here on the Forum. Nevertheless, here goes.

Tiger 131 was captured in Tunisia in 1943. The colour scheme would have, according to the Heereswaffenampt regulations of the day, been one of two variants. When the Tank Museum did the initial restoration, they found some evidence of colour, enough to make an informed judgement about the Tropen Scheme used. The colours, according to their RAL standard, were:

RAL 7008 Graugrün
RAL 8000 Gelbbraun

The TM account is here: http://www.tiger-tank.com/secure/journal27.htm

The alternative scheme, introduced later, was RAL 7027 and RAL 8020. My Pz III of 15 Pz Div was operating in Tunisia at the same time as Tiger 131 and the research I did is on my thread on this Forum.

I did a lot of research on accuracy of paints and in the end decided the best were the Xtracrlixs range by Hannants, the model shop. I only used about six pots to do the Pz III, spraying with a 0.4mm airbrush. Unfortunately Xtracrlyx only do RAL 8000 in acrylics:

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/XA1803

But they do RAL 7008 in enamels:

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X804

A good alternative would be the Lifecolour range. Best place to get them is here:

https://airbrushes.com/index.php?cPath= ... =2a&page=3

The paints supplied by Tamiya, Wilder, AK Interactive and Ammo of MIG are less closely matched to the originals.

Finally, it is possible to source German colours from suppliers to the vehicle restoration community. These invariably come in either rattle cans or large tins, are sometimes of dubious accuracy and you would need to decant and thin to use in an airbrush. I'd suggest that if you're going to follow the camouflage scheme accurately, doing it any other way than with an airbrush would be a challenge.

Of course, if you're happy with something which is just a close approximation, there are many more options, including B&Q.

All the best.

Stephen

[Peter Silcock]

Talking of B&Q I recently had paint matched there and the results are indistinguishable from the original, in fact far superior to any attempts at paint matching at automotive paint suppliers I have previously used. Their test pots are very cheap too. Seems strange squirting Dulux at your model but I was amazed at the results.

[Stephen White]

Peter, I'd agree about the high street type automotive paint suppliers. I did, however, have some original Australian Army paint chips for my Cent and had to use a very smart (ie expensive)specialist vintage car restorer to get a good match (the cars were expensive, not the paint).

I might also add that you have to be very careful what you call "original". Both the German RAL and the British BSI standards have changed since the war and you can't therefor use the wartime standard colour designator with modern standard paint swatches. They're completely different. The limitations of colour printing and colour screens also make it impossible to match to an original colour with any accuracy.

I only know of one reliable published set of Wehrmacht colour chips, which are in Tomas Chory's recently re-published book, Wehrmacht Heer Camouflage Colours, 1939-1945.

http://www.auradesign.eu/CCWH_3_en.htm

I based my comments above about the accuracy of various paint sources on comparison with Chory's paint chips.

Hope that helps.

Stephen

[Peter Silcock]

Yes sorry when I said original I meant the colour B&Q were matching not the original WW2 colour(If such a definitive thing exists). I have yet to find an automotive supplier who can match the white paint on one of my '57 Chevy's but am reluctant to use Dulux on it!