Armortek

As a customer who has over the years has purchased many parts from the well known established producers i would like to first thank Mike for bringing this information to the forum.
I will always try to buy direct from the original producer, But my only slight concern is what to do if a new "producer" appears with parts that i way wish to purchase that are already produced eleswhere. How do you tell if it is reproduced or a genuine new part.
Steve

MMM

How about the one's, that borrow parts off others and then copy them!!! stealing the masters hard work

Richie

Hi Steve,

That's a good point actually, how would we tell?

Paul.

Hi Guys

If a new unknown manufacture turns up in the hobby, which is unlikely as the cost in setting up the production of parts is expensive and years of research, master making and production, many skills are also required. I have around eight years invested in the production of the two hundred plus parts I offer. So if someone suddenly turns up with a lot of parts for sale I would be suspicious. That is not to say that someone might make their own parts and sell them.

If someone offers a new part not made by any of the current manufactures in the hobby then there is a good chance he is genuine. If however someone offers parts that are already produced it might be a flag as these parts have been pretty much covered and those that want them have already purchased them, so his only real market would be new people in the hobby.

My explanation on recast parts in this post should help you recognize them. With the current situation, I for one will watch very closely for this happening again in the future, I know my parts and can easily spot questionable ones.

The big problem is parts offered using pictures of finished products mounted on models as paint hides a lot of detail. Anyone offering parts like this maybe trying to hide something. This is the reason all my parts are advertised in their raw unpainted condition. What you see is what you get.

Regards
Mike

Or you could send Mike an email who has made a copy of his work with proof ect ie Tiger1 Sternantenna Command tank ect , then he will know who the faker is.

Just a thought?

Richie Wiggytronics

We would just like to remind all members that this forum is subject to the same libel laws as any other printed form. To post information or accusation here without absolute proof of guilt would leave both the individual who has posted, and Armortek as forum hosts, liable to prosecution. We would have to protect ouselves from this risk and would therefore have to delete any posting which named persons or companies, or created any kind of blacklist. This is not the place to persue such matters.

So far the postings here been well constructed and very sensible in their approach. Please let's keep it that way.

Thanks
Mark

I would just like to point out that anyone producing any part of any tank might just be creating these items from photographs and scale plans of the parts. Just because one of our superb after market suppliers produces these parts doesn't mean they have been copied. I think it would be very, very hard to prove someone copied a particular part when plans, photo's etc are easily in the public domain.

Thanks Antony

I have another wrinkle to add to the debate

I'd love a set of the machined Tiger 1 deck supports which Vince supplied back in the day.

To the best of my knowledge, no one offers either orginals or copies of these parts.

If I were to draft up a set of drawings and have them machined myself, would that be infringing any kind of rights, given that Vince brought them to the market first ?

Adrian.

Hi Ant

I agree, but it makes you mad, when your work gets copied I had an item copied , it was for a Tiger 1 and they fitted it to a Panther, the output was very little!! the holes were totally wrong size!!! they got that badly wrong
But is was meant to be one of mine!

But you can see where Mike's coming from.

Richie Wiggytronics

Hi Richie,

This is my point, you know it's a copy but they could say that the holes are different sizes so it's not an exact copy. Very hard to prove it's a copy when there are photo's in the public domain. Also there are scratch builders out there like Clive who produces items uniquely for him but could be similar to parts produced by any other manufacturer. A very grey area.

Thanks Ant

I have been following this post, and excuse the pun buts its gone off track, I think Mike was implying that someone has deliberately made copies of his items and sold them as Mikes for a profit,this is clearly not on, but as for making your own scratch built parts, that for me is what modeling is all about, and most of the aftermarket items could be made with patience, its only when you need to make lots of the same that you need to make masters, if you need a part for your model and you can make it, then that's great, just a thought does the German government own copyright to its WW2 armour
regards
Jeff

We must be a bit carefull here not to put off potential producers of after market parts with a "only purchase from established producers" mindset.
Everyone has to start somewhere, Just dont recast/copy other producers items
Steve

Jeffrey Goff wrote: just a thought does the German government own copyright to its WW2 armour
regards
Jeff

Didn't they loose the war. I think we can copy anything of the Third Reich without too much worry

Hi Guys

I feel I must make a observation here, first please read my initial post carefully, most of what is being discussed at the moment is covered. Copying of or making a military item can be done by anyone without a licence in most cases, if not Armortek could not make their wide range of tanks and vehicles without permission. Like wise all the other manufacturers that make them could not do it either. This also applies to the vast array of action figure uniforms and equipment.

Coping, making, machining call it what you will of original items from actual parts, photographs or drawings is available for anyone to do. The fact that someone else has already offered that part in the past is not a problem. If it were, myself, Armorpak, Panzerwerks , Steve Winstone, Tim Catton and many others would have a problem as we all make many of the same parts. But we all use our own designs and masters to make them.

What is unethical and is or maybe illegal is as follows.
1. Placing a manufactured part by another person into a mold and recasting that part even if the part was modified or re-engineered. For example my large axe has a straight blade, some axes have curved blades to take one of my axe castings and changing it to a curved blade and recasting it is very unethical and maybe illegal.
2. Using a design feature designed and built by another person.
3. Using pictures and or part numbers of another manufactures products to sell a item that is not from the original manufacturer, be it a recast part or a part made by other than the original manufacturer. This implies the part offered is from the original manufacturer and is known as counterfeiting.

I hope this clarifies things for you all.

Regards
Mike

Hi Ant

The Holes were right for a Tiger 1 but not a Panther, they need to be bigger ect for the output. so if it was Fitted to a Tiger1 it would of been a 100% COPY.
Re, Mike's posting ie if a Tiger1 Sternantenna Command tank Antenna was borrowed and used as a dummy to copy and make new ones, this must be wrong? or could of been past as Mike's, who knows.

Richie Wiggytronics