Assistance required with Taranis x9d+ single stick

[Gary Richardson]

Good morning all

I have spent the last two days trying to get my Late Tiger 1 to turn correctly. I have a Taranis X9D+ 2019 RUNNING opentx version2.3.14-otx.
I also have OpenTX Companion version 2.3.15 on my laptop. I have not updated the transmitter yet as I am concerned I may loose the current Tiger and Churchill settings and will also need to update the receiver . I downloaded the latest version for the SD card but when I put it in the transmitter and power up the transmitter gives a warning it is expecting version 0038. The SD version on the Open tx site is 0039 and there doesn't seem to be a version 0038 as I tried all the earlier dates ones and they all come up v.0039.
So that's the Transmitter and Companion situation at the moment. As you can tell I am not very confident with programming
Now for the actual results I am getting with driving the Tiger.
I am using single stick driving on the right stick, traverse and elevation on the left. I have tried to replicate how Stephen set up his Centurion as that was the only write up I could find explaining it (Thanks Stephen).
I have both motors going forwards and backwards ok. With the right stick staying vertically centred and then moved left and right the tracks do what is expected to turn accordingly, i.e. contra rotate. The problem arises when I move the stick forward, say half way and then move the stick left or right to do a turn. One track completely stops while the other carries on at the set speed. The tank than struggles to turn, especially on grass. I downloaded the Tiger to Companion and have taken photos of my set up. I have tried changing the mix between -100 & 100 on channel 3 and the set up as it stands gives the results above.
Any help would be gratefully received as although it runs I am getting frustrated despite spending hours reading the Taranis OpenTX manual that I cannot improve it. I also want to bring the Tiger to the open day and would like to take it so some shows this year.
I am also at the stage of putting the electronics in the Churchill so having a setup I can work from would be a massive help.
I am away this weekend but would be willing to travel if anyone is able to have a look/assist.

Regards
Gary

Inputs

Mixes

Outputs

[Jerry Carducci]

Are you using Mode 1 or mode 2 radio layout? Do you have the channel order AETR selected?

Somehow your mix doesn't seem right; not mixing the correct channels?

I'm using a x9D for my Lee in mode 2 (throttle on the left) with default channel order AETR. My
single stick is on the left.

My mix, which works ok, (although I have another version with a mod to correct reverse steering orientation)


Jerry

[Adrian Harris]

That looks correct from the Mixes screen.

Do the bars on the monitor screen move as expected when you move the sticks around ?

Adrian.

[Gary Richardson]

Hi Jerry

The transmitter is mode 2 (Throttle left) and I use the right stick for single driving with the elevation and turret turn on the left stick, I have TEAR set and so Ch1= throttle (gun elevation) Ch2 = elevator ( drive) Ch3= aileron ( left/right turn) and Ch4= rudder ( turret turn) I have set the inputs, mixes and outputs to match channels and receiver outputs . I have had the Tiger driving around for quite a while in that configuration. The problem is getting it to turn in a decent radius while driving forward, it seems to completely stop the track on the side you turn to.

Hi Adrian

I am away from home so no access to the transmitter until after the weekend but I have my lap top so here is the channel monitor sequences.
The first four show forward drive , reverse drive, right and left with no forward drive. These seem to be correct, also I have the Tiger on the trolley jack and the tracks do what is expected.
The next sequence is with about 50% forward drive and then adding a left turn in stages, I think I am expecting the right track to be continuing at the same speed and the left track to be decreasing to allow a decent radius turn instead the left track appears to be stopping as you move the stick further to the left. Your SturmTiger seemed to turn as if the track speed was decreasing proportionally.

Regards
Gary
P.S. I have added the screenshot of the flight modes but not sure if this is relevant and its not a setting I have looked at before.

Stick forwards for forward drive

Stick backwards for reverse

Stick left with no forward drive

Stick right with no forward drive

Left turn sequence 1

Left turn sequence 2

Left turn sequence 3

Left turn sequence 4

flight mode screenshot

[Adrian Harris]

TLDR = Mine does the same

If you move the stick to North, both tracks go to +100 and tank drives straight forwards.
If you then move the stick to North West (top left), the right track stays at +100 and the left track drops to 0, so the tank turns left.

If instead you move the stick to North East (top right), the left track stays at +100 and the right track drops to 0, so the tank turns right.

Now for the maths

I have named my Right Stick Inputs as follows: Up/Down (Thr) is RSUD and Left/Right (Ail) is RSLR

Centre: RSUD = 0 RSLR = 0
North: RSUD = +100 RSLR = 0
South: RSUD = -100 RSLR = 0
East: RSUD = 0 RSLR = +100
West: RSUD = 0 RSLR = -100

Mixes are CH1 = 100 I RSUD += 100 I RSLR and CH2 = 100 I RSUD += -100 I RSLR

North: CH1 = (+100) + (0) = (+100) and CH2 = (+100) + (0) = (+100)
South: CH1 = (-100) + (0) = (-100) and CH2 = (-100) + (0) = (-100)
East: CH1 = (0) + (+100) = (+100) and CH2 = (0) + (-100) = (-100) (RSLR reversed due to the -100 mix weighting)
West: CH1 = (0) + (-100) = (-100) and CH2 = (0) + (+100) = (+100) (RSLR reversed due to the -100 mix weighting)

This is where it gets complicated

North West is a combination of

North: RSUD = +100 RSLR = 0
West: RSUD = 0 RSLR = -100

So North West is the sum of the RSUD and RSLR values from above.

RSUD (+100) + (0) = (+100)
RSLR (0) + (-100) = (-100)

And the mixes add these values thus:

CH1 = (100) + (-100) = (0)
CH2 = (100) + (+100) = (200) (RSLR reversed due to the -100 mix weighting)

Anywhere on a straight line between centre and NW, CH1 will always be zero, as the two stick values cancel each other out.

North East is a combination of

North: RSUD = +100 RSLR = 0
East: RSUD = 0 RSLR = +100

So North East is the sum of the RSUD and RSLR values from above.

RSUD (+100) + (0) = (+100)
RSLR (0) + (+100) = (+100)

And the mixes add these values thus:

CH1 = (+100) + (+100) =(+200)
CH2 = (+100 + (-100) = (0) (RSLR reversed due to the -100 mix weighting)

Anywhere on a straight line between centre and NE, CH2 will always be zero, as the two values cancel each other out.

You can see that you always hit +100 on the non-zeroed channel halfway between centre and the corner.

Adrian.

[Steve McEvoy]

Yep, straight over my head!!

[Adrian Harris]

That's why I gets the big bucks

Adrian

[michael hilton]

Wow Adrian, are you trying to give us old guys a heart attack talk about confused dot com. What happened to ''easy is as easy does and keep it simple
Rant over, I will now go back to sleep mode......Mick

[Adrian Harris]

Whatever happened to the Three R's

The only maths in there is addition and subtraction

Adrian.

[John Clarke]

I used single stick a lot on my twin prop boats, always use single stick on the tank, it's not to difficult to setup with pre set mixes on standard R/C equipment. But the Taranis seemed to take a lot more work because the transmitter is essentially stupid when you first get it.
There are pre programmed mixes available but you have to go and find them on the menu.
Found mine under a picture of a delta wing (elevon). This pre programmed mix can be messed with until you get the outputs you want
I watched lots of You tube clips on Elevon mixing with the Taranis, Most of the presenters think you know what your doing before you start, very annoying lots of different terminology and they are generally setting up an airplane, not a Tank.
"Percentage output" used to mean servo throw. these days they say "weight", since when did heavy come into it?.
They go through the menus so fast, without telling you long button pushes for this, short button pushes for that, jumping to this and that menus.
It takes time to get your head round it.
Setup the radio system with two servos with arms fitted, connect to a receiver in the mode you have selected on the transmitter, have plenty of coffee available and switch on You tube.
One thing they never tell you, Calibrate all the outputs sticks levers and switches before you start. It's surprisingly annoying to find that this little gem of info can cause so much head ache.
Enjoy

[Adrian Harris]

Definitely agree you need to calibrate the sticks, knobs and rollers.

Horses for courses on how to get single stick going. I'm happy fiddling with the wiring so that +100 on each channel gets me forward movement on each motor, then adding and subtracting the track channels on the Mixes screen to get single stick working. Set up a three way switch for sound and that's pretty much a model done.

Then you have the fun setting up limits and slow motion for models with servo based Elevation and Traverse, like the Elefant and the Hetzer, otherwise the gun bangs around like a happy dog's tail.

Gary, I've just upgraded the bootloader, firmware and SD card to 2.3.15 and the behaviour hasn't changed.

Adrian.

[Jerry Carducci]

Adrian, you have far more patience than I do. Your explanation is first rate. Your maths ( or math for us Yanks) pictorial
is perfect.

I rely on the visualizations a great deal, the 'simulators'. OpenTx/EdgeTx with their PC apps do a great job of this. ETHOS is catching up
in this regard but has a superb GUI- interface when using FrSky's X-series system but still I prefer a pc based app where I feel more at home.
There is a disjointed simulatior, however ETHOS Suite isn't yet a do_it_all app.

As I understand better now Gary's original concern I suppose my own profiles pretty much perform the same way. I do miss the action of the
braked differential transmissions in my 1/10 scale ICE powered models; they were incapable of neutral turns but made pretty good gradual turns without completely stopping one track.

Jerry

[Adrian Harris]

I was too lazy to do all those screenshots

I spent yesterday getting a Hetzer fully set up for a client, and we found it didn't quite drive in a straight line with the stick central. A little bit of fiddling with the mix offsets and it ran straight as a die.

I also spent some time last year playing with the steering, so that it was impossible to have the tracks going in opposite directions. Made driving quite difficult as the model stopped behaving as expected and just sat there when certain stick inputs were given. Hopefully I'll be able to familiarise myself with it all again this summer at shows.

Adrian.

[Gary Richardson]

Gary, I've just upgraded the bootloader, firmware and SD card to 2.3.15 and the behaviour hasn't changed.

Adrian.

Hi Adrian

I think I will do the upgrade as soon as I get home, luckily the receivers I have are updatable 'over the air' so that should save some time as they don't have to be disconnected first. The upgrade will make it a lot easier as I can save to the SD card plus the laptop so I will not lose any data. Then I will be more inclined to experiment and change settings. It is just another learning curve with the Taranis and a change of mindset after forty plus years of using Futaba on my aircraft. Mind you it always took me ages to set them up as well
Looking at your stick/ channel combination I take it you have Mode 1 set up.

Regards
Gary

[Gary Richardson]

As I understand better now Gary's original concern I suppose my own profiles pretty much perform the same way. I do miss the action of the
braked differential transmissions in my 1/10 scale ICE powered models; they were incapable of neutral turns but made pretty good gradual turns without completely stopping one track.

Jerry

Hi Jerry

On tarmac/ pavement the tank drives ok, it is on grass that it struggles and uses way more power. I did three days with an amateur film director and got about fifty minutes per session on grass plus numerous reshoots. That was with everything on including the smoke system. I am aiming to get it turning better on grass so extending the battery life.

Regards
Gary