Tim's 2015 Tiger #131 Build Thread

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Tim Carr
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Tim's 2015 Tiger #131 Build Thread

Post by Tim Carr »

Tim's 2015 Tiger #131 Build Thread
2015 to 2023
Well, I've said for many years that I would someday get a build thread up and also build my Tiger #131. So follow along and lets see if it really totally happens.
I started this build many years ago. Got to a point where I had to decide to add the motion pack etc. or not. Well, I had just bought a King Tiger kit from another company and got burned bad with the deal. (I have been asked not to talk about that company or deal on this forum, I lost around $3,000) After that deal, the idea of spending another $2,500 on motion packs, etc. was hard to do. I took everything apart and left the parts sitting on my special Tiger table for many years, ok, only around 7 years. But a few months ago, I turned 70 and I said time to get things finished up and done around here. The 2nd build started. I'm back at that point again where I need to either add motion packs, etc. or just build a static. Decided to add motion etc.. Also got the chance to buy a Mid Production Tiger 2014 with an Ivano Costini's Maybach engine. So now, one to run (Tiger 131) and one to over build as a great static display. On to more build talk.

TIGER #131
How am I going to build this, HOW? Just follow the 2015 directions from Armortek? Or?
Thought of this while I was starting the 2nd build. Remember I'm going to take it apart, AGAIN, to prime, seal, and paint and install motion pack etc. So, I'll be taking and posting lots of 3rd build pics. After taking it apart again.

Came up with 6 different ways to build it. So Far.
1st From the factory. Model it as it should have come out of the factory doors.
2nd Model it just before it's last fight. Without the battle damage that knocked it out of action. A dusty dirt Tiger going into battle.
3rd Make it just after capture. There are pics out there of this time. Dusty battle damaged Tiger.
4th How about after the British redid stuff to get it ready for Churchills visit. According to records items were replaced and redone using parts from other Tigers to get it running and looking ok for the PM and the Kings visit. That could be hard to find a lot of info and pics on. Just what was replaced.
5th How it looks now at this time in Bovington with the battle damage that is still showing.
6th Looks in Bovington without battle damage.
NOTE both 5 and 6 might show changes that the museum did over the years. Motor type change (HL210 to HL230) Bolts on rear top plates and grills changing from square head to cap head (see current pics), did it start with square head or ? And what else? Or nothing?

In review, thinking about doing numbers 5 or 6. I really don't like the idea of doing battle damage, but I might warm up to doing it. Shall see.

Well, here is a funny pic to start with. My mid production turret on top of my #131 Tiger build. Needed room for a bed for my Son's Christmas visit.
131 IMG_9589.jpg

My Tiger Build Table.
131 IMG_9587.jpg

About 1/4 of my Tank books.
131 IMG_9591.jpg


Where it's at 12/29/2023
131 overall IMG_9607.jpg


More Later as I gave a dozen Roses to my Wife for Christmas, which is a DIY project as they are bushes and they need planting. Really, She let me buy another Tiger Tank so I gave her a dozen Roses, some planting and lots of growth required. I'm part of the DIY part.

Later Tim
Another thread
viewtopic.php?t=9875
Tampa Bay, Fla area USA.

neil graham
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Re: Tim's 2015 Tiger #131 Build Thread

Post by neil graham »

Tim Carr wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2023 10:43 pm
More Later as I gave a dozen Roses to my Wife for Christmas, which is a DIY project as they are bushes and they need planting. Really, She let me buy another Tiger Tank so I gave her a dozen Roses, some planting and lots of growth required. I'm part of the DIY part.
I think you 'won' that trade. :D

Great to see you resurrecting the Tiger, like a phoenix..... and we now have another Tiger build thread(s) to follow

Tim Carr
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Re: Tim's 2015 Tiger #131 Build Thread

Post by Tim Carr »

Neil
Yes and No

On the drive over to get that mid Tiger, from another thread.

"My Great Wife of 48 years even offered to pay for it for my Christmas Present. Wow. I'm LUCKY and Blessed. Note, I did pay for it. Instead, She will buy me some nice work T-shirts with pockets. Note, they were on my request list."

I got BOTH! The t-shirts and the Tiger.

She got the Dozen Rose Bushes. A dozen single stem Roses will happen someday I hope.

Later Tim
Tampa Bay, Fla area USA.

Tim Carr
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Help request of rear grill deck area, Help

Post by Tim Carr »

Not sure if this is a build thread or a questions thread? LOL
Whatever, I'm reviewing the rear center grill area and the bolts. NOTE for Tiger 131 and somewhat about my Mid Production Tiger.

Thanks to Adrian Harris for posting the following pic of the rear deck area of the Bovington 131 Tiger showing it having Cap bolts in the rear deck area.
Note to the Early Tiger builders it seems like the Bovington 131 Tiger has them and most of the other Early Tigers have the square bolt heads.
AdrianHarris pic.jpg

Ok the following pics are of my rear center grill. Both were CNC cut. The last owner of the Mid Tiger cleaned, brushed whatever to get rid of the CNC look.
131 rear deck IMG_9606.jpg
131 rear center grill IMG_9608.jpg
So, what does anyone think of my taking both (all rear grill pieces really) and putting them in the sand blasting tank to try to give them a cast look??

Thoughts??

Also, both of my model deck pieces seem to need to have a lot of countersinking done to them as far as I can tell from pictures that I have reviewed.
Any thought before I start cutting into them. Which might take a few days as my mill has another project mounted to it right now.
Countersink the bolt head areas or NOT??

I will be getting out my jewelers saw and cutting some of the ends of the grills as shown in the "The Modeler's Guide to the Tiger Tank". Thanks to John Fitzsimons for sharing that info in another thread.

viewtopic.php?p=97822#p97822

2 more of my books. Note, if you see a book that I show in any of my posts and you want more info or whatever, let me know and I'll be happy to share whatever I can.
131 books IMG_9609.jpg
In another later post I'm going to be reviewing "pins" in hinges or bolts with castle nuts or regular in the rear grill area deck pieces. My Armortek manual shows a lot of "pins" and the Bovington pics (see Vincesgallery 131 Tiger pics) they show a lot of nuts and bolts type of hinge pins.

Enjoy your builds.

Later Tim
Last edited by Tim Carr on Sat Dec 30, 2023 4:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Vince Cutajar
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Re: Tim's 2015 Tiger #131 Build Thread

Post by Vince Cutajar »

Hi Tim and Season's Greetings.

This is my interpretation of the square head bolts and pins on the engine deck from various photos I've seen. Does not mean that I'm correct but it does look good.

viewtopic.php?p=63670#p63670

viewtopic.php?p=64938#p64938

If you are going to counterbore the holes make sure you go to the same depth. I used a two flute slot drill because I'm cheap but a proper counterbore bit could be used also.

Vince

Tim Carr
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Re: Tim's 2015 Tiger #131 Build Thread

Post by Tim Carr »

Vince
Thanks for sharing those pics and your great build thread. Yours is a Late version Tiger.

On the depth, I'll make sure I try to cut to the same depth. Thanks for reminding me.

Someone posted a GREAT gallery of photos of the Bovington 131 Tiger called Vinces Gallery. Was that you??

https://vincesgallery.smugmug.com/Histo ... Bovington/

At this time, I'm thinking about doing my model as to how it currently sits in Bovington. Which on the bolts, it's going to be Cap head bolts. Which are shown in the above Adrian Harris pic of the 131 Tiger

On sand blasting to make the CNC machined look change to a casting look any thoughts?

Enjoy the build!!

Later Tim

Tims Tiger Beginners Tips
viewtopic.php?p=98129#p98129
Tampa Bay, Fla area USA.

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Derek Attree
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Re: Tim's 2015 Tiger #131 Build Thread

Post by Derek Attree »

Hi Tim
That is Vince Abbots gallery.
I would say .

Regards Derek
we must stop making stupid predictions

Vince Cutajar
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Re: Tim's 2015 Tiger #131 Build Thread

Post by Vince Cutajar »

Hi Tim

No, those are not my photos. It's Vince Abbot's gallery.

I have never seen a Tiger 1 in the flesh so would not know if those parts are cast or not. Having said that, I would think that casting those parts would have made more sense than machining them from scratch.

Recreating Tiger 131 as it stands now. That's an original idea. Go for it. So I guess you will be fixing the muzzle brake upside down. At least that's what someone commented here a while ago.

Vince

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Re: Tim's 2015 Tiger #131 Build Thread

Post by John Fitzsimons »

Looking forward to another Tiger build. Always so many innovations with the Tigers with so many models out there.

Simon Peck
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Re: Tim's 2015 Tiger #131 Build Thread

Post by Simon Peck »

Engine deck square headed bolts: always been a mystery to me. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a WWII photo showing them! I’d be interested if anyone has? Maybe Kent if he see’s this can throw some light?

Tim Carr
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Re: Tim's 2015 Tiger #131 Build Thread

Post by Tim Carr »

With 3 of the 6 remaining Tigers, we have great photos of three of them. I'll be looking thru a few of my books with WW2 pics to also see what I can find.

Enjoy the build!

Later Tim

Tims Tiger Beginners Tips
viewtopic.php?p=98129#p98129
Tampa Bay, Fla area USA.

Robert Reid
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Re: Tim's 2015 Tiger #131 Build Thread

Post by Robert Reid »

Tim Carr wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2023 10:43 pm
Tim's 2015 Tiger #131 Build Thread
2015 to 2023
Well, I've said for many years that I would someday get a build thread up and also build my Tiger #131. So follow along and lets see if it really totally happens.
I started this build many years ago. Got to a point where I had to decide to add the motion pack etc. or not. Well, I had just bought a King Tiger kit from another company and got burned bad with the deal. (I have been asked not to talk about that company or deal on this forum, I lost around $3,000) After that deal, the idea of spending another $2,500 on motion packs, etc. was hard to do. I took everything apart and left the parts sitting on my special Tiger table for many years, ok, only around 7 years. But a few months ago, I turned 70 and I said time to get things finished up and done around here. The 2nd build started. I'm back at that point again where I need to either add motion packs, etc. or just build a static. Decided to add motion etc.. Also got the chance to buy a Mid Production Tiger 2014 with an Ivano Costini's Maybach engine. So now, one to run (Tiger 131) and one to over build as a great static display. On to more build talk.

TIGER #131
How am I going to build this, HOW? Just follow the 2015 directions from Armortek? Or?
Thought of this while I was starting the 2nd build. Remember I'm going to take it apart, AGAIN, to prime, seal, and paint and install motion pack etc. So, I'll be taking and posting lots of 3rd build pics. After taking it apart again.

Came up with 6 different ways to build it. So Far.
1st From the factory. Model it as it should have come out of the factory doors.
2nd Model it just before it's last fight. Without the battle damage that knocked it out of action. A dusty dirt Tiger going into battle.
3rd Make it just after capture. There are pics out there of this time. Dusty battle damaged Tiger.
4th How about after the British redid stuff to get it ready for Churchills visit. According to records items were replaced and redone using parts from other Tigers to get it running and looking ok for the PM and the Kings visit. That could be hard to find a lot of info and pics on. Just what was replaced.
5th How it looks now at this time in Bovington with the battle damage that is still showing.
6th Looks in Bovington without battle damage.
NOTE both 5 and 6 might show changes that the museum did over the years. Motor type change (HL210 to HL230) Bolts on rear top plates and grills changing from square head to cap head (see current pics), did it start with square head or ? And what else? Or nothing?

In review, thinking about doing numbers 5 or 6. I really don't like the idea of doing battle damage, but I might warm up to doing it. Shall see.

Well, here is a funny pic to start with. My mid production turret on top of my #131 Tiger build. Needed room for a bed for my Son's Christmas visit.

131 IMG_9589.jpg


My Tiger Build Table.

131 IMG_9587.jpg


About 1/4 of my Tank books.
131 IMG_9591.jpg



Where it's at 12/29/2023

131 overall IMG_9607.jpg



More Later as I gave a dozen Roses to my Wife for Christmas, which is a DIY project as they are bushes and they need planting. Really, She let me buy another Tiger Tank so I gave her a dozen Roses, some planting and lots of growth required. I'm part of the DIY part.

Later Tim
Another thread
viewtopic.php?t=9875

Great research collection and cool thread!

BTW, if you are looking for a great book... "The Tigers are Burning" by David Glantz and Jonathan House is an incredible look at the Battle of Kursk.

Dr. House was one of my professors when I got my military history masters. Loved him as an instructor. His Military History of the Cold War is also quite brllliant. But Glantz and House's book on Kursk is probably one of the best on the topic and goes into the strengthis (and weaknesses) of the Tiger and German technology. The Tigers are very emblamatic of a systemic economic failure... (Richard Overy's "Why the Allies Won" is similarly brilliant on that front.)

Happy New Year and beautiful!

Cheers!

RPR

Tim Carr
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Square bolts in use Tiger Deck

Post by Tim Carr »

Ok, while I was coming down from working on my attic flooring, more storage space. I remember where I had seen square headed back deck bolts. On the Saumur Tiger pics. I'm thinking that it is a Mid or late production Tiger.
I'm posting a clipped pic of one of the pics from the dvd from www.panzerbasic.com
Note, I did clip it and also dropped the dpi down to 72dpi. If you want the full pic at a much higher dpi, see them for the CD/DVD, GREAT PICS.
Well, back to 1/1 attic work.

Enjoy the build!

Later Tim

Tims Tiger Beginners Tips
viewtopic.php?p=98129#p98129
.
.
t1_ext_hull_deck-r_0628.jpg
Tampa Bay, Fla area USA.

Robert Reid
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Re: Tim's 2015 Tiger #131 Build Thread

Post by Robert Reid »

I may have mentioned it in the Rolls-Royce Armoured Car thread... or my engine build...

But square headed bolts had an economic utility that was probably not lost on the Germans mid-war. They offered the strongest head for the smallest use of material. It's one of the reasons Henry Royce used them from early-on in his engineering (learned from his apprenticeship at the Peterborough the rail yards, no doubt!)

You could also set near a flange/edge and they would lock in place with more strength than a hex.

Both these were commonly known in engineering circles in the time. And I am certain not lost on, Krupps, Ferdinand Porsche, The Todt Organization or on Albert Speer when it came to saving materials and building late-war armour and aircraft.

Just a little historical tidbit! I am surprised there are not more square headed bolts on WW2 equipment.

Cheers!

RPR

Tim Carr
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link does not work, but

Post by Tim Carr »

I noticed that the link that I posted does not work. Looked around and did not find it. But, did find the following link which leads to a lot of pics and info.
Enjoy

https://www.panzerbasics.com/

https://www.panzerbasics.com/panzer/02_ ... albums.htm

Later Tim

Tiger Beginners Tips
viewtopic.php?t=9875
Tampa Bay, Fla area USA.

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