I'm having a bit of a problem getting the sound system working on the 222. I purchased the Airtronics VG6000 per Armortek recommendation. Upon assembling the wiring for the sound system and performing the programing function with the following channel set up:
Channel 1 (up and down on the right joystick) connected to Throttle
Channel 2 (side to side on the right joystick) connected to Steering
Channel 3 (up and down on the left joystick) connected to additional sounds control.
Channel 4 (Side to side on the left joystick) connected to Turret rotation.
Channel 5 not used
Channel 6 connected to gun elevation (this operated by a non proportional 3 position toggle switch)
I get the following results:
The engine start-up and idle sound does not begin when the model main fuse box switch is turned on but moving the left joystick forward does activate the start up and idle.
Moving the joystick forward again does activate the engine shut down.
Engine proportional revving does operate with the throttle----but I have no access to any of the other sounds (cannon, Mg, horn etc)
If I switch what I believe (instructions are vague on this in my opinion) is the extra sounds control to channel 6 (three position toggle switch) and give channel 3 back to gun elevation (which is the configuration that I desire) then I get this after reprogramming:
The engine start up and idle does begin sometimes when the main fuse-box switch is turned on (sometimes it aborts abruptly then sometimes tries again and sometimes succeeds and sometimes fails to continue. The channel six 3 position toggle switch then turns the engine on and off (which I don't think it is supposed to do) but still does not activate any of the other sounds.
This is all pretty confusing for the non-electronically inclined.
Any suggestions?
Lawrence Godson
PS I continue to see in all references to the auxiliary sound control that it must be connected to a proportional channel. Gill said that this is not true and that it just needs to be connected to a channel that is operated by a 3 position toggle switch which is not proportional (Based on this I purchased the Airtronics VG 6000) Did I get this right?
222 sound issues
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Lawrence Godson
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Ad Wouterse
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Hi Lawrence,
Just a few short remarks/questions concerning your posting.
When you talk about programming, do you mean on your transmitter or on the sound unit ?
To operate the sound unit you do need a proportional channel. The sound unit utilizes the full width of the signal band of that channel to differentiate between the various sounds.
The full instruction manual in English can be downloaded here http://www.benedini.de/Home_E/Products_E/TBS5_E.pdf
Please discard the chapter on the programming, because our sound units have already been pre-programmed.
Finally, don't get upset when the joy stick method doesn't work first time around. It probably is the most tricky method.
Just a few short remarks/questions concerning your posting.
When you talk about programming, do you mean on your transmitter or on the sound unit ?
To operate the sound unit you do need a proportional channel. The sound unit utilizes the full width of the signal band of that channel to differentiate between the various sounds.
The full instruction manual in English can be downloaded here http://www.benedini.de/Home_E/Products_E/TBS5_E.pdf
Please discard the chapter on the programming, because our sound units have already been pre-programmed.
Finally, don't get upset when the joy stick method doesn't work first time around. It probably is the most tricky method.
Cheers,
Ad
Ad
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Lawrence Godson
- Posts: 165
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:06 pm
- Location: Westchester, suburb of Chicago, USA
Thanks Ad
I was talking about programing on the sound unit (pushing the programing button on the sound unit board). It seems as though this is to train the unit to work with the joystick trimming.
That's too bad about the transmitter needing to have another proportional channel. I had thought everything was clear in my questions to Armortek and they specifically recommended the Airtronics VG6000 because of the 3 position switch on channel 6. I specifically asked if it needed to be proportional and was told no.
I'm in contact with Mr. Benedini and hope he can work me through the problems but it looks like I will have to either use the method of putting the gun elevation on the non-proportional channel 6 to free up the "up/down axis of channel 3 on the left joystick for sound control. or buy yet another transmitter with a proportional sixth channel. Buy the way how do you start your engine sound and is that on the same control as operates/selects the rest of the sounds?
Thanks
Larry
I was talking about programing on the sound unit (pushing the programing button on the sound unit board). It seems as though this is to train the unit to work with the joystick trimming.
That's too bad about the transmitter needing to have another proportional channel. I had thought everything was clear in my questions to Armortek and they specifically recommended the Airtronics VG6000 because of the 3 position switch on channel 6. I specifically asked if it needed to be proportional and was told no.
I'm in contact with Mr. Benedini and hope he can work me through the problems but it looks like I will have to either use the method of putting the gun elevation on the non-proportional channel 6 to free up the "up/down axis of channel 3 on the left joystick for sound control. or buy yet another transmitter with a proportional sixth channel. Buy the way how do you start your engine sound and is that on the same control as operates/selects the rest of the sounds?
Thanks
Larry
Lawrence Godson
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Ad Wouterse
- Posts: 292
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Hi Larry,
The programming that you did could be a source of the problems you are facing. As I mentioned in my earlier posting, the sound unit comes pre-programmed (for operation through a toggle switch with momentary contacts or a joy-stick). So no programming is required, just plug and play. This information is included in the instructions that come with sound unit.
But no harm is done. The toggle mode is the easiest one to re-program. Detailed information can be found in the Benedini manual that you can download from the link I posted earlier.
I am not familiar with the transmitter you are using. I understand that it has 6 channels, probably 4 proportional on the joy-sticks and 2 switches.
Do both switches just have a basic switching function ? If one proves to be proportional, you can replace that switch by a simple self-neutralising 3 position one. Et voilà , your dedicated toggle switch.
Your initial configuration should work, that is after you have reprogrammed the sound unit back to its "factory"settings (see above).
To give the gun elevation a smoother movement you could consider to instal a servo-delay unit on that channel.
I start the engine sound with the same toggle switch that operates the other sounds. That means: switch up one time, switch down one time and the engine sound/idling starts. When I repeat this operation the engine sound stops. It works on the bench, fingers crossed that it does in the 222.
I hope this makes sense, but then again you have contacts with the master of sounds himself. If necessary he will solve your problems.
The programming that you did could be a source of the problems you are facing. As I mentioned in my earlier posting, the sound unit comes pre-programmed (for operation through a toggle switch with momentary contacts or a joy-stick). So no programming is required, just plug and play. This information is included in the instructions that come with sound unit.
But no harm is done. The toggle mode is the easiest one to re-program. Detailed information can be found in the Benedini manual that you can download from the link I posted earlier.
I am not familiar with the transmitter you are using. I understand that it has 6 channels, probably 4 proportional on the joy-sticks and 2 switches.
Do both switches just have a basic switching function ? If one proves to be proportional, you can replace that switch by a simple self-neutralising 3 position one. Et voilà , your dedicated toggle switch.
Your initial configuration should work, that is after you have reprogrammed the sound unit back to its "factory"settings (see above).
To give the gun elevation a smoother movement you could consider to instal a servo-delay unit on that channel.
I start the engine sound with the same toggle switch that operates the other sounds. That means: switch up one time, switch down one time and the engine sound/idling starts. When I repeat this operation the engine sound stops. It works on the bench, fingers crossed that it does in the 222.
I hope this makes sense, but then again you have contacts with the master of sounds himself. If necessary he will solve your problems.
Cheers,
Ad
Ad
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Lawrence Godson
- Posts: 165
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:06 pm
- Location: Westchester, suburb of Chicago, USA
The sound unit does flash 3 times upon activation of the main switch and that indicates that it is still in "toggle switch control mode" according to the instructions . (I just reconfirmed this)
Pushing the channel 3 left joystick forward triggers the engine start up and then idle sound. Bringing the joystick back to center and then pushing it forward again triggers the engine shut down sound. The joystick (up and down motion) performs no other function as far as I can see. Pulling it back does nothing. No other sounds can be triggered.
Pushing the throttle (right joystick - channel 1) forward or back does trigger the proportional engine speed sounds so that is working properly I think.
When you say that you control the engine start and stop with the same switch as you activate and select all the other sounds I am confused as to how that actually works. Can you explain in more detail how you trigger the other sounds without shutting down or starting the engine.
As I'm still a relative novice at RC I am not familiar with a "servo delay" unit. I assume that it would slow up the response to the toggle switch that I have to allocate to the gun elevation. Will they know what I am talking about at a standard RC shop?
Channels 5 and 6 are controlled by toggle switches. Channel 5 's is a two position switch. Channel 6's is a three position switch, but it is not momentary (or as you would say, "self-neutralising". You must bring it back to center manually.
I can not find any indication in the included instructions for the transmitter that either of these channels is proportional. I did not think that they needed to be in order to operate the sound selection based on my information from Armortek.
Thanks again for your continuing help.[/b]
Pushing the channel 3 left joystick forward triggers the engine start up and then idle sound. Bringing the joystick back to center and then pushing it forward again triggers the engine shut down sound. The joystick (up and down motion) performs no other function as far as I can see. Pulling it back does nothing. No other sounds can be triggered.
Pushing the throttle (right joystick - channel 1) forward or back does trigger the proportional engine speed sounds so that is working properly I think.
When you say that you control the engine start and stop with the same switch as you activate and select all the other sounds I am confused as to how that actually works. Can you explain in more detail how you trigger the other sounds without shutting down or starting the engine.
As I'm still a relative novice at RC I am not familiar with a "servo delay" unit. I assume that it would slow up the response to the toggle switch that I have to allocate to the gun elevation. Will they know what I am talking about at a standard RC shop?
Channels 5 and 6 are controlled by toggle switches. Channel 5 's is a two position switch. Channel 6's is a three position switch, but it is not momentary (or as you would say, "self-neutralising". You must bring it back to center manually.
I can not find any indication in the included instructions for the transmitter that either of these channels is proportional. I did not think that they needed to be in order to operate the sound selection based on my information from Armortek.
Thanks again for your continuing help.[/b]
Lawrence Godson
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Ad Wouterse
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Hi Larry,
Slowly I start to understand your state of mind. Now even I feel a bit lost myself
.
Let's take it from the start in chronological order.
Most transmitters do have one neutralising and one non-neutralising joy stick, the latter is meant for the throttle function on models powered by combustion engines.
For our application in general it is easier for both joy sticks to be neutralising and in your case it is even imperative.
No problem. Every decent radio set comes with a bag of small parts amongst which should be a small coil spring. In the instruction manual you should find information on how to convert the non-neutralising stick to a neutralising one.That is no big job, normally it is just removing a small leaf spring and mounting the a.m.coil spring instead.
The second step is the programming procedure. I think it would be wise to go through that once more based on the instructions below (source: Benedini manual)
"quote"
3. Switch on transmitter and model. The Sound Module will flash three times. Set all joysticks to neutral positions, so that the model does not move!
4. Push the programming button. The LED on the module flashes 3 times.
After this all available sounds will be played once automatically, according the list of sounds delivered with each unit. Storage is done automatically.
5. LED starts permanently flashing. This indicates the end of the sound list.
6. Switch receiver off and on.
"unquote"
When you hear all sounds being played automatically, the programming is OK.
Next step is the operating of the sounds.
Move the joy stick fully upwards one time and let it jump back to its neutral position. The up-movement should be swift but steady (no hesitation)
Then move the joy stick fully downwards one time and let it jump back to neutral. The engine sound should start and go to idle. Use the throttle to rev up the motor and the sound and let it run though its paces.
While the engine sounds quietly continue we go for the special sounds.
Move the joy stick fully upwards 4 times, allowing it to jump back to neutral each time.
Move the joy stick fully downwards and hold that position. You should hear a salvo of the FLAK (at least I think that is sound number 4). The sound will stop as soon as you let the joy stick return to neutral.
Move it downwards again and the FLAK sound will come again.
By repeating the a.m. procedure with a different number of upwards movements (between 2 and 10) followed by one downward movement (hold or release) all special sounds can be selected and played.
The standard engine sounds are all controlled by the throttle, the special sounds (including 2 "special" engine sounds) are controlled by the toggle procedure.
A list of the sounds can be found on page 2 of the short manual that came with the sound unit.
Quite some posting, but I hope it will be of help to you and maybe some others.
Slowly I start to understand your state of mind. Now even I feel a bit lost myself
.Let's take it from the start in chronological order.
Most transmitters do have one neutralising and one non-neutralising joy stick, the latter is meant for the throttle function on models powered by combustion engines.
For our application in general it is easier for both joy sticks to be neutralising and in your case it is even imperative.
No problem. Every decent radio set comes with a bag of small parts amongst which should be a small coil spring. In the instruction manual you should find information on how to convert the non-neutralising stick to a neutralising one.That is no big job, normally it is just removing a small leaf spring and mounting the a.m.coil spring instead.
The second step is the programming procedure. I think it would be wise to go through that once more based on the instructions below (source: Benedini manual)
"quote"
3. Switch on transmitter and model. The Sound Module will flash three times. Set all joysticks to neutral positions, so that the model does not move!
4. Push the programming button. The LED on the module flashes 3 times.
After this all available sounds will be played once automatically, according the list of sounds delivered with each unit. Storage is done automatically.
5. LED starts permanently flashing. This indicates the end of the sound list.
6. Switch receiver off and on.
"unquote"
When you hear all sounds being played automatically, the programming is OK.
Next step is the operating of the sounds.
Move the joy stick fully upwards one time and let it jump back to its neutral position. The up-movement should be swift but steady (no hesitation)
Then move the joy stick fully downwards one time and let it jump back to neutral. The engine sound should start and go to idle. Use the throttle to rev up the motor and the sound and let it run though its paces.
While the engine sounds quietly continue we go for the special sounds.
Move the joy stick fully upwards 4 times, allowing it to jump back to neutral each time.
Move the joy stick fully downwards and hold that position. You should hear a salvo of the FLAK (at least I think that is sound number 4). The sound will stop as soon as you let the joy stick return to neutral.
Move it downwards again and the FLAK sound will come again.
By repeating the a.m. procedure with a different number of upwards movements (between 2 and 10) followed by one downward movement (hold or release) all special sounds can be selected and played.
The standard engine sounds are all controlled by the throttle, the special sounds (including 2 "special" engine sounds) are controlled by the toggle procedure.
A list of the sounds can be found on page 2 of the short manual that came with the sound unit.
Quite some posting, but I hope it will be of help to you and maybe some others.
Cheers,
Ad
Ad
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Lawrence Godson
- Posts: 165
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:06 pm
- Location: Westchester, suburb of Chicago, USA
Hello Ad!
Thanks for hanging in there with me.
To begin with, unfortunately my Airtronics VG 6000 has no extra springs or instructions for adding self neutralizing function to the left joystick. I am waiting for a local RC shop to open this morning to find out if they think it can be converted.
I reprogrammed as you said--- and got the series of sounds played through again. After this things are just about the same as before:
As soon as I start moving the left joystick upwards the engine starts immediately. This happens well before I can even start to recenter the joystick and, again, moving the joystick downwards seems to have no effect at any time and certainly does not trigger any sounds.
One curious thing that I did observe just to confuse things a bit more:
At times, while the engine sound is running, a quick upward movement of the left joystick with manual re-centering will actually produce one of the extra sounds on top of the engine sound but much more often than not it just causes the main engine sound to shut down as soon as I start the upward motion. Strange happenings!
Thanks for hanging in there with me.
To begin with, unfortunately my Airtronics VG 6000 has no extra springs or instructions for adding self neutralizing function to the left joystick. I am waiting for a local RC shop to open this morning to find out if they think it can be converted.
I reprogrammed as you said--- and got the series of sounds played through again. After this things are just about the same as before:
As soon as I start moving the left joystick upwards the engine starts immediately. This happens well before I can even start to recenter the joystick and, again, moving the joystick downwards seems to have no effect at any time and certainly does not trigger any sounds.
One curious thing that I did observe just to confuse things a bit more:
At times, while the engine sound is running, a quick upward movement of the left joystick with manual re-centering will actually produce one of the extra sounds on top of the engine sound but much more often than not it just causes the main engine sound to shut down as soon as I start the upward motion. Strange happenings!
Lawrence Godson
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Lawrence Godson
- Posts: 165
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:06 pm
- Location: Westchester, suburb of Chicago, USA
Well, now I am feeling very foolish--but relieved!
It turns out that the thing that was causing most of my confusion was that I needed to do a "reverse" on my channel three on the transmitter to get the instructions to fit my situation.
Now things are finally working pretty well.
After turning on the main switch I can select the sound that I want by pushing forward all the way the correct number of times to tell the sound system which sound I want to trigger (with a backward motion). Pushing once forward and then centering sets the system up for engine start up. Then, with this sound, as one might expect--- it alternates between starting and stopping the engine each time you pull the joystick back. Then when you push forward, and return, for example, 5 times and then pull backward you get the auto cannon sound which plays over the engine idle sound if it is also activated. This now works fine for all the other sounds once I learned how to reliably return the stick to "center" manually each time without the aid of self centering.
Thanks again to Ad (and Mr Benedini) for working me through all this!
It turns out that the thing that was causing most of my confusion was that I needed to do a "reverse" on my channel three on the transmitter to get the instructions to fit my situation.
Now things are finally working pretty well.
After turning on the main switch I can select the sound that I want by pushing forward all the way the correct number of times to tell the sound system which sound I want to trigger (with a backward motion). Pushing once forward and then centering sets the system up for engine start up. Then, with this sound, as one might expect--- it alternates between starting and stopping the engine each time you pull the joystick back. Then when you push forward, and return, for example, 5 times and then pull backward you get the auto cannon sound which plays over the engine idle sound if it is also activated. This now works fine for all the other sounds once I learned how to reliably return the stick to "center" manually each time without the aid of self centering.
Thanks again to Ad (and Mr Benedini) for working me through all this!
Lawrence Godson
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Ad Wouterse
- Posts: 292
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:32 pm
- Location: The Netherlands
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Hi Larry,
Good to hear that things have finally worked out (big sigh of relieve
).
If you don't succeed in finding the parts to convert your left joy stick to a self neutralizing version you might consider following options.
1- exchange the coil spring and the leaf spring from the left and right joystick, or maybe even better
2- if you want to keep the sound on your left joy stick, exchange the complete joy sticks. This may sound more complicated than it is and if you feel uncertain about it you might ask your local RC shop to do it for you. It shouldn't take more than 5 minutes.
Good to hear that things have finally worked out (big sigh of relieve
).If you don't succeed in finding the parts to convert your left joy stick to a self neutralizing version you might consider following options.
1- exchange the coil spring and the leaf spring from the left and right joystick, or maybe even better
2- if you want to keep the sound on your left joy stick, exchange the complete joy sticks. This may sound more complicated than it is and if you feel uncertain about it you might ask your local RC shop to do it for you. It shouldn't take more than 5 minutes.
Cheers,
Ad
Ad
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Lawrence Godson
- Posts: 165
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:06 pm
- Location: Westchester, suburb of Chicago, USA