Ammo Box

[Vince Cutajar]

Earlier this week me and my wife went to my late parents home looking for something and something else followed us home.

Personally I wouldn't have given it a second look but my wife loved it (she has a thing for strange containers). She already has plans for it!!

I don't really remember this box. I suspect it belonged to my mother's uncle who lived with them until he passed away. This box was used as a toolbox and it still has some nice (although rusted) handmade tools from the time he worked as a fitter at the dockyard. This box was made in 1953 (older than me) as the year is stamped on the lid. I think it is of British origin. As these ammo boxes were reused many times it could be that the paint work and stencil markings are of a later date. Infact the 7.62mm Ball L2A2 were, I believe, introduced in 1955.

Considering it's age, it is in remarkable condition which means it must have been looked after.

My wife wants me to decipher the markings that are on it. Apart from the date of manufacture of the box, I know that it carried 700 rounds of the above mentioned ammo. The rest is all unintelligible to me. I am sure there are some knowledgeable people here who can help me out with deciphering the marks.

Also, the lid has some markings stamped on it as follows:

1) To the left of the year "1953" there are the letters "SF" stamped.
2) On the left of the lid in larger font "SV" and below it "140A" are stamped.
2) On the right of the lid and also in larger font "H5O" and below it "MKI" are stamped.

What's the best way of cleaning it without damaging the paintwork and stencils? I was thinking a damp cloth with no detergent.

Many thanks.

Vince

[Mark Heaps]

Hi Vince,
I will point John to this post and see how he responds.
BDR I would translate as Bandolier, & CHR as Charger. I personally never experienced getting them in that form in 7.62 but did get them that way later on in 5.56 . I am not aware there was a charger for the SLR mags but I was REME.
Maybe infantry ammunition, I am sure John can tell us more about the markings and what they mean.
Mark

[Vince Cutajar]

Maybe infantry ammunition

Thanks Mark. Most probably infantry.

Vince

[Michael Cecil]

UK manufactured rifle ammunition packed in five-round charger clips, and then into cloth bandoliers, each bandolier pocket holding two clips (10 rounds), 50 rounds total. The ammunition was packed at Radway Greene in October 1966. Agree with Mark: BDR is bandolier, CHR is charger. The yellow disc symbol indicates Ball ammunition, and the other symbol indicates bandoliers with 5-round clips.

H50 Mk.1 is the box nomenclature. These were previously used for .303 ammunition, and given its date of manufacture of 1953, may well have been packed with .303 inch ammunition in some form prior to be returned and refilled at Radway Greene. As you said, robust boxes like this were 'returnable stores' and could cycle through the system many times, being repainted and re-marked each time.

I won't venture into the other stamped markings, which I suspect are British manufacturer codes.

Nice markings, worthy of preserving 'as is'.

Mike

[Mark Heaps]

Hi Michael,
We did get 7.62 in clips of 5 but never in bandolier and I never got issued, or have even ever saw a picture of the charger, for the SLR mags.
I always had to remove them from the clip and load them in the mag individually, but that was on the range and never in a battle situation.
My job was to keep the fighting troops out there between me & the enemy. If I had to use my personal weapon in anger, then things had gone severely wrong.
Mark

[Michael Cecil]

Hi Mark,

The charger was used to load magazines away from the rifle - as you are aware, the L1A1 had a dust cover that prevented access from above the magazine while in the rifle, and the rifle receiver was not equipped with charger guides. A special magazine charger guide that sat on top of the magazine was used with the 5-round charger clips, but was not generally issued to troops in the field, who had to strip the clip of 5 rounds, and insert them one at a time by hand into the magazine away from the rifle. The training, at least for Aust troops, was to kneel with the 20-round mag between the knees, and insert rounds alternately from each hand. With practice, magazine filling using 20 loose rounds could be achieved in a matter of seconds.

The 50 round bandolier was issued with the rounds in clips to personnel as their reserve ready rounds. It meant that the rounds were safely and quietly transported until required - no jangling of loose rounds, or damage, before they were needed. The rounds could easily be stripped from the charger clips for loading once the soldier's individual magazines had been expended. It was a left-over from the days of .303 SMLE rifles, that did have a charger guide in the receiver, and the magazine could be re-filled while still in the rifle (much easier - in a 30 round, pop-up target competition, I could keep up with guys firing semi-automatic rifles while using a No.1 Mk.3* SMLE by laying out the four charger clips to my right hand before starting). Many of the bandoliers were, like the boxes, used and re-used (and re-marked) for .303, and again later for 7.62 rounds.

These days, with light-weight mags, soldiers generally carry multiple fully charged magazines in webbing pouches.

Mike

[John-Heaps]

Hi,
as suggested, 7.62 is the calibre, CHR plus the symbol is it is in five round charger clips, and is in bandolier for carrage, the PG number stencilled on the container is the batch number of the ammo, produced where and when.
H50 is the size of the ammo container, all ammo containers have a size number believe it or not.

the markings stamped into the box are the same sort of info, made where and batch info.

All ammo types and containers need batch markings to allow it to be traced in case of an inncedent/accident/ malfunction.

Please remember that the SLR replaced the Enfield,the No 4 was charger fed, the early FAL models also had a charger bridge in the top cover, as Top Brass move with rocket pace they wanted the same chargers as they had before, our SLR did not have the charger bridge, never mind pack it in chargers.

I do recall news reel pictures from the Falklands showing guys carrying bandoliers so it hung around for a long time

[Mark Heaps]

So infantry ammo then ?
Genuine but expect to be called out on it if you take it to a tank meet ?

Mark

[Michael Cecil]

John,

I think you'll find it is RG, for Radway Greene, not 'PG', and the date 10-10-66 is the packing date of the box.

Mike

[Stephen White]

There was a cross-over between the SMLE .303 and the 7.62 SLR. In the sixties, as NATO moved to the latter calibre, the UK intended to use the huge stocks of Lee Enfield rifles as reserve weapons. A number were converted to the L8 standard. I remember firing one as a CCF cadet in the late sixties. Although the wholesale conversion of Lee-Enfield No 4 for the Regular Army didn't go ahead, the infantry sniper rifles were converted to L8 standard and served for many years. There was some merit in continuing to supply 7.62mm ammunition in bandoliers (for tactical reasons) and in charging clips for use in the remaining Lee Enfields. I guess there was no reason to change when the SLR became the standard service weapon. We certainly had ammunition in that form during endless tours in N Ireland for our large brown walking sticks.

[Vince Cutajar]

A big thank you guys from my wife for all that information. I explained all that information using images from the internet. She also wants me to print out the posts so that the information can be left in the box.

Tomorrow she will empty the box and clean it up and leave it in the original paintwork.

Vince

[Vince Cutajar]

Just to bring the thread to a conclusion. The box has been cleaned and a place for it found upstairs. It is being filled up with old books and not bullets.

Vince