Chieftain build by Phil Woollard.

[Dave Dibb (Armorpax)]

Hi Phil,

They are available same way I get them.

http://www.collectablekitbash.co.uk/loo ... xplosives/

https://www.monkeydepot.com/Flashlight_ ... sl0531.htm

Best regards

Dave

[Phil Woollard]

Thanks for the links Dave, I expect I shall make them.
I've been adding the transfers and contemplating also fabricating the IR filter with hinge this being as thin a surround as I dare.

[Michael Cecil]

Hi Phil,

Been following your build with great interest. Quality work.

Is there a reason why you chose to equip the MAG-58 commander's MG with US military ammunition, please? I may be wrong, but I thought Britain was self-sufficient in small arms ammunition manufacture?

Regards

Mike

[Stephen White]

It is indeed Mike. BAeS has the capacity to produce up to one million rounds per day. Our 7.62mm was produced by ROF at Radway Green and by ICI at Kynoch.

[Kevin Hunter]

As Phil's example represents a BATUS Chieftain, based/operated in Canada, might they not have used US munitions anyway? Plausible enough to get him off the hook ?

Kevin

[Stephen White]

Nice try Kevin but no. The only exception I'm aware of was .50 ranging gun ammunition in the early days. I believe all the 7.62 would have come from UK stocks, as of course would the 120mm, since we were the only people using it. Hats off to Mike for The Eagle Eye award.

[Kevin Hunter]

It was worth a shot!!
Now the experts are going to have to point out the clues and show us the correct version. (Please)

[Phil Woollard]

I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight! I feel sorry for Dave.

[Phil Woollard]

Well Michael can you explain the problem with the decals please

[Michael Cecil]

Hi Phil,

Not sure I'd call it a problem, just curious why you used a liner marked for US military ammunition, rather than one from British production, on a very British tank, especially given your amazing attention to detail and obviously accomplished modelling abilities.

In this case, I can't detail what a Brit liner label looks like exactly, but the ammunition would be one of the L2 series Ball ammunition and one of L5 series Tracer, the series 'sub-mark' (like L2A2 Ball) depending upon date of production, in a ratio of 4 Ball:1 Tracer. The plant symbol would be RG - Radway Green or whatever symbol ICI at Kynoch used, plus a production batch date. The Brits did produce and use M13 link for the MAG-58 et al EDIT: but call it 'Mk.1', judging by the liner images provided by Marcus later in this thread. Box colour looks right for a Brit box - that ickie brown the Brits use, whereas the US and most others in the NATO/ABCA families use olive drab (so not right for that label).

What you have on the box is US ammunition nomenclatures M80 Ball and M62 Tracer, manufactured in the USA at Lake City Army Ammunition Plant (the 'LC' on the last line) in Independence, Missouri, along with a US production batch code with a date of production in April 1993 (493 in the code). The US also packed their ammunition in an inner cardboard carton (hence 'Cartons' on the label), which reduces the liner capacity by the thickness of corrugated cardboard x 4 - the top and bottom of the carton and the two ends. Other suppliers, such as ADI/Thales in Australia, and the Israelis, use a cardboard face sheet on the side facing the bullet tip, but no carton, so get 235 rounds per liner. (The M19A1 liner size was originally designed for the .30-06 round, which is longer, hence the space from side to side has to be taken up for 7.62 with a filler of some sort, usually cardboard). I covered these aspects of 7.62 mm packaging in some detail in my book 'Leopard AS1' published by Trackpad in 2015, as it makes a significant difference in the total 7.62 mm ammunition loading for the tank, eg, 10 liners @ 200 = 2,000 rounds, but 10 x 235 = 2,350 rounds in the same capacity liner stowage.

You would have to locate a British liner of the correct period being portrayed by your vehicle in order to obtain the exact labeling. That would also inform you of the number or rounds packed into the box - either 200 or 235 being the most usual, depending upon the packing method.

I hope that all helps.

Regards

Mike

[Phil Woollard]

Very interesting indeed Michael, you have maybe opened a can of British worms lol.

[Ivano Costantini]

Hi Phil,
no need to congratulate, this tub is a "monument" to modeling. But let me tell you, you are "CRAZY" hahahahaha! Congratulations again.

[Phil Woollard]

Maybe I am crazy but I enjoy it. Don't forget those stl files that you were going to send me Ivano!

[Marcus Kwa]

I had these photos stashed away for a future Ferret build:







Cheers,

Marcus

[Michael Cecil]

Thanks Marcus, for posting those: some interesting variations. Is that AUSCAM cloth you have them sitting on?

So M13 link, when manufactured in the UK, is Mk.1 link. Thanks, I've learned something. I've edited my original post accordingly

I also note from Marcus' images that the liners have 200 rounds, and are much more rounded on the vertical edges of the body, much the same as WW2 vintage US .30-06 liners. So, to a rivet counter like me, some interesting comparisons.

Mike