Colours

[Steven Ford]

TEL's original machine is described as grey but pictures exist of greens and beiges too.
What colour choices are people considering (ideally with a RAL number) for the bodywork/chassis/axles etc.?

[Robert Reid]

It is a good question and still one being debated in the world of RR Armoured cars.

The full-size replica tender we are currently building on an Alpine Eagle Chassis will be in a blue/grey. Navy Grey. Because it's the best we can figure was original. Especially on what started as the Royal Naval Air Service cars.

But there is no 'standard' color.

Some of the post-war cars have been better documented. The one at the tank museum.. is very much an evergreen/forest green. But doubtful that was what made it to the Trans-Jordan.

I did a ScaleLink model last year and used a Testors grey on it that I 'think' is pretty close. I'll get a number if you like. And it is the color I plan to use on my armoured car build.

But right now... short of some original panels showing up somewhere... which is doubtful... it's open to interpretation.

Cheers,

RPR

[Steven Ford]

Thanks Robert.

Battleship grey was my leading option at present. Do we think that 'everything' was the same colour or might the chassis and axles have been different?

[Stephen White]

The Tank Museum's Armoured Car is painted in an unusual shade of grey green, which apparently represents its condition when serving in Singapore, I believe. Others would vouch for its authenticity or otherwise.

I scanned the colour for Kian a while back to try to identify a contemporary match. The scanned colour came out as 316058 in sRGB hex notation (which means very little on its own). That information does however allow you to search the various colour standards for a match. The closest colour I could find was Dark Jade, in the BS4000 palette. That would make sense as its a green/grey colour.

With a good colour match in Dark Jade within a standard colour palette, it should be easy to convert it to other palettes such as RAL or to a Munsell colour notation. I did look at comparison with the RAL Classic palette but there is no close match, at least to the simplified palette, which is the only one I have.

For what it's worth.

Stephen

[Steven Ford]

Thanks Stephen.

[Robert Reid]

The dark admiralty grey is pretty close...

As for the chassis and other components and how they were painted... here is what the Rolls-Royce factor did up to 1939.

Car were assembled 'in the white' meaning that most of the parts were un-painted during assembly. There were exceptions and some parts like steering columns, engine blocks, heads, rocker covers and some components were stove-enameled in black. Which was a 'mostly-gloss' black. Lovely finish!

But for the chassis parts including rails, crossmembers, axles, brake cross shafts, drums, etc. etc. etc... these were assembled in raw metal.

At the 'end' of assembly... and this included wiring and fuel piping and, later, Bijur Oil System piping, the chassis was brush painted with a high-lead red primer. It was, literally, 'slopped on' to protect all the chassis parts. Runs, drips... nothing fancy. In later cars, some components like the axles were painted black (stove-enameled) and fitted to the car black... but the main chassis was just primer.

In this state, the chassis would be shipped to the coachbuilder which would design, build, fit and finish the coachwork. During this process, they would (again with brushes) paint areas of the chassis that an owner might see during a casual inspection... in black. This generally meant front axle, back axle, dumbirons, frame under front and part of rear fenders... trestles under the running boards, etc. The idea was that the things you could see (if you didn't get on a creeper) were made black.

But, wait, there is more!... In the era of the Ghosts the chassis rails, dumbirons, gas tank, etc were relatively exposed. And were generally painted in body color. Later cars, with more 'shrouded' coachwork were generally just painted black. But in the Ghost era, chassis rails and dumbirons were very much visible. So were gastanks. So they were typically painted in a body color (or if more than one color was used on the coachwork) the chassis would be painted in the dominant or most-visually-appealing of the two colors.

For an armoured car... I believe that they were all shipped from the factory with slopped on high-lead red primer. Best match, color wise, is American Rustoleum primer. There is probably a British equivalent. But it was not pretty. It was not fancy. It was not what you see on modern documentaries about how Rolls-Royce cars are assembled with diamond-encrusted gudgeon pins and airbrushed bolt heads. Remember that in the Teens and '20's Rolls-Royce was building the finest car in the world... that they could sell for a profit.

If you had a time machine, BTW, and teleported back to 1914 and brought a brand new Alpine Eagle to the 21st Century... and brought it to a modern concours... you would probably finish last. The mechanical perfection was there... and the style was there... and the coachwork finish and interior would be spectacular. But the chassis would not be finished like a 2018 BMW bonnet. They just didn't do that. There were exceptions... including one fully-polished chassis done by the apprentices at Derby. Amazing. But after the London Motor Show where it was displayed... the chassis was unceremoniously slopped with red primer... and sold to a customer like any other chassis.

Hope this helps. IMHO, armoured cars were shipped with very un-classy red primer on them. Maybe (in a time of rationing) with no primer at all. Because, well, military things often didn't survive battles... much less campaigns, wars or.... centuries.

Cheers,

RPR

[Robert Reid]

This is just an interesting picture of Chassis 2EX (experimental). It was actually a pre-war chassis. I think 2106. That was retained for modification and use by the Derby Works. It later became a motor show chassis. And every inch of it was polished by apprentices for display. No nickel or plating there... just raw materials polished to mirror finish.



The apprentices must have cried when told to cover it with primer so the front office could sell it...

Cheers,

RPR

[Pete Nash]

I was chatting with Chris hall at the Amiens 100 about the scheme for my RR armoured car.
I will be doing it as a RNAS 'Southwold Squadron' example. Chris reckons they were battleship Grey with red RNAS on the bonnet sides, not to mention the 6 foot Ensign flying from the turret roof.
When they went to Flanders they were repainted in 'khaki green' with RNAS in white.

Pete

[Chris Hall]

Pete -

So you could get to use your Khaki Green after all, then .....

I don't know anything about the colours of the lettering, though. If you look at the watercolour I put on Rob Reid's thread asking for original pictures, that's white letters on grey. Logic suggests that, on the battlefield, they'd subdue the white as it would stand out like a sore thumb, and thus be a good artillery target. So I'd suggest either grey / white or khaki / red. But that's only logic, not reality. It's all down to the research - or what you think you can get away with !

All the best,

Chris

PS. How did you manage to roll your Mark IV ?

[Pete Nash]

Chris

How did I roll the Mk.IV?

One of the ramps collapsed on me