Vince's Tiger 1 late variant 2017

[Vince Cutajar]

Have a look at the bottom row on page 32, left side. It's also the top sample on page 23. Dunkelgelb RAL 7028, mid 1943 to summer 1944.

Thanks Stephen

At least now I know which version of Dunkelgelb to aim for.

The mixer here uses the RAL and NCS colour systems.

Vince

[Vince Cutajar]

Decided to cut the slots in the hub caps after all. It took me more time to think of how to do it then actually doing them. Used a hacksaw to initially cut the slot and then used a Dremel with a heavy duty cut-off wheel to open the hacksaw cut a little, clean it up and straighten any wobbly hacksaw cuts.

Dremel clamped to table

Vince

[Stephen White]

Vince

I've had a go at scanning the available references and colour chips for the 1943-44 variant of RAL 7028 Dunkelgelb. The result isn't definitive, that would require a professional scan of one of the original RAL reference cards. Nevertheless, I've scanned the relevant Chory chip, which is currently the most reliable source available and compared the result with scans from the Real Colour book. The result seems to be pretty consistent.

The picture shows a couple of usable bits of information.

Firstly, the nearest modern RAL colour is RAL 6013, Reed Green. How close a match? At the bottom is the Delta E value of 4.98. CIE 2000 Delta E is a measure of colour difference and can be interpreted as:

On a typical scale, the Delta E value will range from 0 to 100.

<= 1.0 Not perceptible by human eyes.
1 - 2 Perceptible through close observation.
2 - 10 Perceptible at a glance.
11 - 49 Colors are more similar than opposite
100 Colors are exact opposite


Of course, the perceive the difference on your model, you'd have to hold a chip against it. You might think the colour is close enough.

If you want to refine it, you can see that Reed Green has more red, green and blue than the original RAL Dunkelgelb, which means it's a slightly different hue and more saturated ie intense. Your colour mixer might be able to tweak the values using these figures.

At the top is the Munsell colour description for the scan. I couldn't find a translator for Munsell to NCL conversion but your chap might be able to use Munsell. I can also give you a RGB Hex value, which is another measure.

Is the colour too dark? I don't think so. On a large ie 1/6th model, it will appear lighter. You can see this if you get a sample of RAL 6013 on your computer and enlarge it to fill the screen. It seems lighter in bigger swathes. It's not what we're used to seeing but it is a close representation of the original, as documented by Chory, who has so far been the only person to offer to the world painted chips rather than printed ones.

You could always get a sample mixed to test and after applying it, you could play around with filters to adjust it.

All the best.

Stephen

[Vince Cutajar]

Many thanks Stephen for the detailed reply.

My plan at the moment is that next Tuesday (Monday is a holiday) I will take my book with me and see what we can match. Maybe they might have a scanning facility. At least with the Reed Green you mentioned I have a starting point. Infact I don't why Dunkelgelb is called dark yellow. Personally it looks more greenish than yellow.

Also, I am assuming that the camouflage colours are matt colours. Am I correct?

Vince

[Vince Cutajar]

Removed the machining marks on the hub covers and did an experiment with one of the road wheels. Yesterday, looking at a photo of a steel road wheel I noticed that the nuts used over the locking tabs look slightly larger than the nuts used on the hub. At first I thought of using one size smaller hardware on the hubs but I think then they will look too small (plus being a costly exercise). So then I thought, how about increasing the size of the hardware which has the locking tabs from 2.5mm to 3mm?

Right hardware is 3mm

Obviously, this means opening up all the holes in the wheel and tabs to accommodate the 3mm hardware. I was more concerned in opening up the holes in the thin brass tabs. For this I used a tapered 3mm round needle file. I think I will use this solution unless somebody tells me that I am wrong and all the nuts on the road wheel are the same.

Also, a couple of days ago, I got a can of reddish primer to experiment with. At first I was going to spray the floor of the hull with it to see how it looks, but then used another smaller part of the model which was already etch primed as well.

How does it look?

Vince

[Phil Woollard]

That's the Johnson Vince, they were all painted in red oxide of varying shades inside and out and yours looks very good indeed. Will you paint the outside in red oxide also ready for the weathering of the top coat? ......Regards Phil.

[Vince Cutajar]

Actually Phil, I was going to spray the red primer over the etch primer on the outside only. Not bothering with the red primer on the inside. Weathering? Well that's another story. Never done it before so I doubt I will risk it on such an expensive model. I was thinking that my Tiger just came off the production line.

How about the difference in size of the road wheel nuts? Are my eyes deceiving me?

Vince

[Stephen White]

Vince, good luck with the colour matching. Yes to matt. Dark yellow is the one thing Dunkelgelb isn't, as you've observed. It's really best described as a greenish, greyish khaki. I believe the description Dunkelgelb originates from the pre-war commercial paint on which the wartime colour was based.

Re the steel roadwheel nuts, yes, definitely a difference in size. Obvious in these photos (King Tiger, Bovington, same wheel as Tiger):

As for weathering, it really makes the model. If you use the techniques we've described on the Forum, you won't do anything that isn't reversible. It's very absorbing too, once you get going. Do have a look at what Mick Hilton achieved from scratch. Enjoying your meticulous build.

Stephen

[Phil Woollard]

The 1/1 Vit Tiger late road wheel nuts are defo larger on the wheels compared to the hub assemblies ...Phil.

[Adrian Harris]

[Vince Cutajar]

Thank you Stephen and the others for being so patient with me and helping me out.

Stephen, if you don't mind I have another question, this time about Elfenbein. The old RAL was 1001, but in the modern charts it seems to have shifted to RAL 1014. Is it OK to use RAL 1014?

Vince

[Vince Cutajar]

Thanks Adrian. The size of the nuts are different.

Vince

[Stephen White]

Vince

Elfenbein. A better match would be RAL 1000 Green beige. This has a Delta E of 5.44 (perceptible at a glance) whereas RAL 1014 has a Delta E of over 10.0 ie colours are more similar than opposite. 1000 may be a better match than the above shows as I was running out of daylight when I scanned the Chory chip. This is all good stuff for me too, I'm filing away the knowledge in the hope I'll one day get around to my Fehrmann Tiger.

All the best.

Stephen

[Vince Cutajar]

Again, thanks for the help.

Vince

[Vince Cutajar]

Yesterday I drew in CAD the hub cap cover so that I could draw the position of the two small bolts.

At first I was going to machine a template from the drawing so that I could drill the holes but then I remembered that I can actually find out the X and Y co-ordinates of the location of the bolts from the CAD drawing. And that's what I did this morning. Having a DRO on the milling machine made life easy to locate the positions on the actual cover. At first I was going to just drill holes with the intention of later on gluing the bolts in the holes but at the last moment drilled and tapped for the bolts.

I also added what might be a grease nipple to the centre of the cover. How does it look?

Does anybody know of where I could make a small batch of photo-etched brass tabs for these two bolts?

Vince