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Steel Dragons and copied Armorpax parts
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Steel Dragons and copied Armorpax parts
Hi All,
I would like to wish everyone a Happy New Year but we are less than a week into it and it has already been marred by clear evidence of more recasting of Armorpax parts.
There has, for some considerable time now, been various statements from other customisers of infringements by Steel Dragons and Richard Tripp, up until now I have never been able to prove anything regarding my parts.
That changed this week with his latest website and ebay offerings of 20 ton jacks in resin or metal.
The offering shows an all resin jack which is clearly identified on the web as being mastered by me.
"We are offering two versions of this popular accessory crafted in either resin or white metal. This is a kit that requires some assembly with simple hand tools, sand paper and your choice of adhesive or epoxy. These items were originally designed by David Dibb and we are fortunate to have recently located a number of them for sale."
The issue comes in that I have only ever produced these with metal fittings. I have spent a number of hours looking at the photos and cannot prove they are resin although the casting flash would suggest they are. The proof came from the main Jack body. In reviewing the pictures a clear top seam can be seen and I have identified this on the pictures below. The Armorpax Jack body is cast from a single piece mould rather than a 2 piece mould and therefore has no top seam. The last 4 pictures show my castings and the moulds to show what I mean.
If anyone has a one of these and confirm the fittings are resin please let me know.
On the Steel Dragons site Richard claims that they are continuing to develop their own parts and move away from "Unreliable vendors", I pressume I am one of the unreliable vendors!!!!
His company profile also states he has a team of people as follows
"we do employ a number of highly skilled artisans who have been instrumental in fueling our growth and success. These talented individuals include resin and white metal casters, a photo etching specialist, a machinist, two electrical engineers ( I kid you not!), a number of dedicated craftsmen specializing in the fabrication of tools, clamps, accessories fashioned from brass, wood, white metal, resin etc,"
As the only photoetched parts I can see on his site are mine why would he need an etcher?????
Further more I can find nothing on his site that isn't produced by either myself, Steve Hoeger at Panzerwerks, Mike Stannard at Sixth Scale Icons, Tim Catton, Steve Winstone etc.. Why, if he is only offering parts created by us, would he need resin and metal casters?
I leave you to make up your own mind but if he is copying my Jack, why not everything else.
We had similar problems with Peddinghaus and a number of other German companies the other year.
I am filing an intellectual property breach with Ebay but have little I can do to stop him in the US. All I can ask is that you the customer stop supporting people like this. I have looked on his order status page and there are names I recognize.
If you continue to support these people all that will happen is the people with the actual talent, who create the originals, will stop supporting the hobby. Then all you will have is people offering old and tired copies and there will be no new parts.
I like most people am finding it more difficult to get through each month with the continuing rising prices and these people may just as well come and take the food straight off my kids plates.
This acceptance of intellectual property theft has to be stopped if you want us to keep doing what we do. The ulimate answer to this problem lies with you the customer. If you choose to continue supporting these people don't be surprised if we get fed up and jack it in.
Regards
Dave
I would like to wish everyone a Happy New Year but we are less than a week into it and it has already been marred by clear evidence of more recasting of Armorpax parts.
There has, for some considerable time now, been various statements from other customisers of infringements by Steel Dragons and Richard Tripp, up until now I have never been able to prove anything regarding my parts.
That changed this week with his latest website and ebay offerings of 20 ton jacks in resin or metal.
The offering shows an all resin jack which is clearly identified on the web as being mastered by me.
"We are offering two versions of this popular accessory crafted in either resin or white metal. This is a kit that requires some assembly with simple hand tools, sand paper and your choice of adhesive or epoxy. These items were originally designed by David Dibb and we are fortunate to have recently located a number of them for sale."
The issue comes in that I have only ever produced these with metal fittings. I have spent a number of hours looking at the photos and cannot prove they are resin although the casting flash would suggest they are. The proof came from the main Jack body. In reviewing the pictures a clear top seam can be seen and I have identified this on the pictures below. The Armorpax Jack body is cast from a single piece mould rather than a 2 piece mould and therefore has no top seam. The last 4 pictures show my castings and the moulds to show what I mean.
If anyone has a one of these and confirm the fittings are resin please let me know.
On the Steel Dragons site Richard claims that they are continuing to develop their own parts and move away from "Unreliable vendors", I pressume I am one of the unreliable vendors!!!!
His company profile also states he has a team of people as follows
"we do employ a number of highly skilled artisans who have been instrumental in fueling our growth and success. These talented individuals include resin and white metal casters, a photo etching specialist, a machinist, two electrical engineers ( I kid you not!), a number of dedicated craftsmen specializing in the fabrication of tools, clamps, accessories fashioned from brass, wood, white metal, resin etc,"
As the only photoetched parts I can see on his site are mine why would he need an etcher?????
Further more I can find nothing on his site that isn't produced by either myself, Steve Hoeger at Panzerwerks, Mike Stannard at Sixth Scale Icons, Tim Catton, Steve Winstone etc.. Why, if he is only offering parts created by us, would he need resin and metal casters?
I leave you to make up your own mind but if he is copying my Jack, why not everything else.
We had similar problems with Peddinghaus and a number of other German companies the other year.
I am filing an intellectual property breach with Ebay but have little I can do to stop him in the US. All I can ask is that you the customer stop supporting people like this. I have looked on his order status page and there are names I recognize.
If you continue to support these people all that will happen is the people with the actual talent, who create the originals, will stop supporting the hobby. Then all you will have is people offering old and tired copies and there will be no new parts.
I like most people am finding it more difficult to get through each month with the continuing rising prices and these people may just as well come and take the food straight off my kids plates.
This acceptance of intellectual property theft has to be stopped if you want us to keep doing what we do. The ulimate answer to this problem lies with you the customer. If you choose to continue supporting these people don't be surprised if we get fed up and jack it in.
Regards
Dave
www.armorpax.net
There used to be a nice banner here till Photobucket lost everything.............................
There used to be a nice banner here till Photobucket lost everything.............................
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Re: Steel Dragons and copied Armorpax parts
Hello Dave
I hope this gets sorted soon. You have my full support and must stress that the prototypers have put a hell of a lot of time and effort onto their products and must be supported by us fellow builders. I would hate to loose any of you as you all make the hobby.
Copying others work is NOT on!!!!!
Lee
I hope this gets sorted soon. You have my full support and must stress that the prototypers have put a hell of a lot of time and effort onto their products and must be supported by us fellow builders. I would hate to loose any of you as you all make the hobby.
Copying others work is NOT on!!!!!
Lee
http://www.Facebook.com/newthorpemodels
Dont hit me so early in the morning with those negative waves.
Listen carefully i shall say this only once.
If its not broke dont fix it.
Ich Hatt Einen Kameraden
Dont hit me so early in the morning with those negative waves.
Listen carefully i shall say this only once.
If its not broke dont fix it.
Ich Hatt Einen Kameraden
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Re: Steel Dragons and copied Armorpax parts
Hi Dave.
Just seen this posting, and what a bad way to kick off a new year as Lee has said this must be stopped sooner rather than later, its an old story people standing on what others have achieved through hard work to make a quick profit having put no effort into it themselves.
Why don't we all log into e bay look for the said jack and report it for what it is to ebay and do it every time something is listed?
I for one will continue to get parts for all models going out of Pauls Tank Workshop, from the original manufacturers and sellers.
Cheers Paul.
Just seen this posting, and what a bad way to kick off a new year as Lee has said this must be stopped sooner rather than later, its an old story people standing on what others have achieved through hard work to make a quick profit having put no effort into it themselves.
Why don't we all log into e bay look for the said jack and report it for what it is to ebay and do it every time something is listed?
I for one will continue to get parts for all models going out of Pauls Tank Workshop, from the original manufacturers and sellers.
Cheers Paul.
Paul's Tank Workshop. Complete Tank builds and re builds zimmerit and paint to museum quality standard. pjtigerman@aol.com
01524 720977
https://www.facebook.com/PaulsTankWorkshop
01524 720977
https://www.facebook.com/PaulsTankWorkshop
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Re: Steel Dragons and copied Armorpax parts
Hi Dave sorry to here this , personally i have only bought from genuine suppliers like
yourself and would not entertain these cowboys
. regards Dave gray
yourself and would not entertain these cowboys
. regards Dave gray
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Re: Steel Dragons and copied Armorpax parts
Hi DaveDavid Gray wrote:Hi Dave sorry to here this , personally i have only bought from genuine suppliers like
yourself and would not entertain these cowboys
. regards Dave gray
Don't equate cowboys with this clown. Maybe clowns take offense to that comment. SD has been doing this for years.
regards
Tim
"So long as one isn't carrying one's head under one's arm, things aren't too bad." – Erwin Rommel
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Re: Steel Dragons and copied Armorpax parts
Hi Tim , no offence , in the UK it's another name for crooks or fraudsters
Dave
Dave
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Re: Steel Dragons and copied Armorpax parts
Hi Fellas.
If this sounds a bit pompous well sorry ...
But I do think it would be not only very nice but also mutually beneficial for more of the members on this forum to have an opinion about Daves posting, lets take a moment to think about how pleased we have all been when we opened up our bag of Armorpax goodies that come with the Armortek tanks that we all love so much, and even those of us who have the older models how many of Daves parts have been bought to enhance them before Mark and Gill added them as part of the kit?
There are a lot of memebrs on here and together we have a voice on the best forum going that could be listened to if we all shout together.
So come on lads lets hear it for Dave and Armorpax . . . we would surely miss him if he was not there!
Cheers Paul.
If this sounds a bit pompous well sorry ...
But I do think it would be not only very nice but also mutually beneficial for more of the members on this forum to have an opinion about Daves posting, lets take a moment to think about how pleased we have all been when we opened up our bag of Armorpax goodies that come with the Armortek tanks that we all love so much, and even those of us who have the older models how many of Daves parts have been bought to enhance them before Mark and Gill added them as part of the kit?
There are a lot of memebrs on here and together we have a voice on the best forum going that could be listened to if we all shout together.
So come on lads lets hear it for Dave and Armorpax . . . we would surely miss him if he was not there!
Cheers Paul.
Paul's Tank Workshop. Complete Tank builds and re builds zimmerit and paint to museum quality standard. pjtigerman@aol.com
01524 720977
https://www.facebook.com/PaulsTankWorkshop
01524 720977
https://www.facebook.com/PaulsTankWorkshop
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Re: Steel Dragons and copied Armorpax parts
Hi Dave
Regretably there will always be someone who tries to leech off the ideas and hard work of others for a quick profit!
Be assured i will never purchase anything from those mentioned!
Keep up the good work, as I think my Pz IV and Panther are nearing completion (Lee )!!
heres to a succesful 2013!
Mike
Regretably there will always be someone who tries to leech off the ideas and hard work of others for a quick profit!
Be assured i will never purchase anything from those mentioned!
Keep up the good work, as I think my Pz IV and Panther are nearing completion (Lee )!!
heres to a succesful 2013!
Mike
Armortek Panzer III; Jagdpanther; Panther; Pz IV; Stug III;
Spearhead STUG IV;
Spearhead STUG IV;
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Re: Steel Dragons and copied Armorpax parts
Dave
You certainly have my support.
As a newbie here I need all the professional help I can get and although I'm not into German armour I will probably be looking for British bits and peices for my Centurion in due course.
Copying the work of other people is wrong and ultimately damaging to our hobby. If the pro suppliers pull out the imitators have nothing to work with and supplies dry up. We all lose out.
Steel Dragons will not receive my custom.
Regards
Kevin
You certainly have my support.
As a newbie here I need all the professional help I can get and although I'm not into German armour I will probably be looking for British bits and peices for my Centurion in due course.
Copying the work of other people is wrong and ultimately damaging to our hobby. If the pro suppliers pull out the imitators have nothing to work with and supplies dry up. We all lose out.
Steel Dragons will not receive my custom.
Regards
Kevin
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Re: Steel Dragons and copied Armorpax parts
Hi Dave,
It's a poor show that your work has been copied without your consent, so the guy can make some money off you. I don't know too many 1/6 tankers, but I will make sure they know about this. I have had a few parts from you and I will be back for more in the future.
Best wishes,
Sarah
It's a poor show that your work has been copied without your consent, so the guy can make some money off you. I don't know too many 1/6 tankers, but I will make sure they know about this. I have had a few parts from you and I will be back for more in the future.
Best wishes,
Sarah
'I reject your reality and substitute my own'
Re: Steel Dragons and copied Armorpax parts
Hi Dave
You know you have my support in this, as I am also a victim of Steel Dragons, cannot go into detail here for legal reasons and a promise to Mark and Gill in the past. For those interested you can read about it in the SAG Cooler Forum.
Hope we can get this sorted soon.
Mike
You know you have my support in this, as I am also a victim of Steel Dragons, cannot go into detail here for legal reasons and a promise to Mark and Gill in the past. For those interested you can read about it in the SAG Cooler Forum.
Hope we can get this sorted soon.
Mike
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Re: Steel Dragons and copied Armorpax parts
Dave
Fully support you and the other legitimate after-market suppliers. Thanks for all you do to enhance our hobby.
I guess the best gesture is to say "did you get my recent order by email?" I'll confirm via pm.
Regards
Stephen
Fully support you and the other legitimate after-market suppliers. Thanks for all you do to enhance our hobby.
I guess the best gesture is to say "did you get my recent order by email?" I'll confirm via pm.
Regards
Stephen
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Re: Steel Dragons and copied Armorpax parts
Hi Dave
You have my support I have only ever bought my parts from you and
Steve Winston and they are great parts.
Hope you get this sorted
Regards
Derek
You have my support I have only ever bought my parts from you and
Steve Winston and they are great parts.
Hope you get this sorted
Regards
Derek
we must stop making stupid predictions
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Re: Steel Dragons and copied Armorpax parts
Hi Dave,
I am sorry to hear about the problems you are having with Richard Trip, the same problem that Mike has had in the last couple of years with him. I noticed he still has my parts on his web site, but I have not supplied any parts to him in the last 2 years. The only problem I had with him was getting the momey off him for the parts I made. It is almost inpossible to email him as he does not answer emails. Surely there is something Ebay can do especially as they are very tight on counterfiet goods now.
All the Best
Steve Winstone
I am sorry to hear about the problems you are having with Richard Trip, the same problem that Mike has had in the last couple of years with him. I noticed he still has my parts on his web site, but I have not supplied any parts to him in the last 2 years. The only problem I had with him was getting the momey off him for the parts I made. It is almost inpossible to email him as he does not answer emails. Surely there is something Ebay can do especially as they are very tight on counterfiet goods now.
All the Best
Steve Winstone
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Re: Steel Dragons and copied Armorpax parts
I've known both Dave and Steve for some years, so I have some idea how much time and effort goes into their work. I find it almost unbelievable that someone would even attempt to make counterfeit products for what is a relatively small market,and then offer them on Ebay where the original producer can see it.
I wouldn't dream of going outside of the UK for something I can get direct from my home market, even if it initially appear to be cheaper. Nor would I dream of ordering something from one country which is built and supplied direct from another, when I could go direct. There are some strange people out there.
I wouldn't dream of going outside of the UK for something I can get direct from my home market, even if it initially appear to be cheaper. Nor would I dream of ordering something from one country which is built and supplied direct from another, when I could go direct. There are some strange people out there.
Garry
1/6 PzKfw III
1/6 PzKfw III