No 14 BergPanther Build
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Sorry folks
Maths was never my strong point!
The Saumur BergPanther indeed has SIX floor panels (two long, four short) The short ones are original and have oval forged lifting handles. The two long panels are post war modifications, and have trapezoidal lifting handles. Also when seen from below the timber of the long panels is a lighter colour than the short panels (see Trojca/Tankpower Panther vol 4 pp107-108.)
The wartime Bergepanther had EIGHT short panels. The original Technical Evaluation Report in the Bovington TM archive states, "The wooden superstructure is provided with eight removable steel framed wooden floor boards.."
Photographic support for this has proven hard to find. There was a high angle oblique view of the Chertsey BergePanther (TM photo 4606/C1) but it appears to have gone AWOL, and is no longer in the right box there, nor in there scanned library. However the photo has been published and by dint of counting the dark recesses of the lifting handles is can be seen that the panels are all short.
The other set of photos, which until recently had been overlooked, were taken by PFC B.A Newhouse, US Army Signal Corps, 3rd Army, at Morhet (6km SW of Bastogne) 27th Jan 1945. Six of these photos appear in "Repairing the Panzers" pp100-103. On page 103 the right hand photo (TM ref 11/A4) shows the two rear centre panels removed to reveal the capstan and cable drum. The edges of the two front panels are clearly visible as is the junction of the right hand front and rear panels beyond. QED there were eight panels on this vehicle too.
If the lifting handles were of the same pattern as the short panels and the timber matched, then there might be room to suggest the long panels on the Saumur example were a German modification for the Ausf G version. As it is the Saumur vehicle has been heavily restored over the years and the long panels very likely fabricated after its capture.
cheers, Fabrice
Maths was never my strong point!
The Saumur BergPanther indeed has SIX floor panels (two long, four short) The short ones are original and have oval forged lifting handles. The two long panels are post war modifications, and have trapezoidal lifting handles. Also when seen from below the timber of the long panels is a lighter colour than the short panels (see Trojca/Tankpower Panther vol 4 pp107-108.)
The wartime Bergepanther had EIGHT short panels. The original Technical Evaluation Report in the Bovington TM archive states, "The wooden superstructure is provided with eight removable steel framed wooden floor boards.."
Photographic support for this has proven hard to find. There was a high angle oblique view of the Chertsey BergePanther (TM photo 4606/C1) but it appears to have gone AWOL, and is no longer in the right box there, nor in there scanned library. However the photo has been published and by dint of counting the dark recesses of the lifting handles is can be seen that the panels are all short.
The other set of photos, which until recently had been overlooked, were taken by PFC B.A Newhouse, US Army Signal Corps, 3rd Army, at Morhet (6km SW of Bastogne) 27th Jan 1945. Six of these photos appear in "Repairing the Panzers" pp100-103. On page 103 the right hand photo (TM ref 11/A4) shows the two rear centre panels removed to reveal the capstan and cable drum. The edges of the two front panels are clearly visible as is the junction of the right hand front and rear panels beyond. QED there were eight panels on this vehicle too.
If the lifting handles were of the same pattern as the short panels and the timber matched, then there might be room to suggest the long panels on the Saumur example were a German modification for the Ausf G version. As it is the Saumur vehicle has been heavily restored over the years and the long panels very likely fabricated after its capture.
cheers, Fabrice
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Hello Chaps
I have completed the mechanicals and electrics. I found the suspension set up a bit of a challenge. I ended up doing my own thing. At the moment im doing the accessories and Crane. I have put some new photos on my Gallery. Wont be long before im painting it. Im still dont know what camo to do
Lee
I have completed the mechanicals and electrics. I found the suspension set up a bit of a challenge. I ended up doing my own thing. At the moment im doing the accessories and Crane. I have put some new photos on my Gallery. Wont be long before im painting it. Im still dont know what camo to do
Lee
http://www.Facebook.com/newthorpemodels
Dont hit me so early in the morning with those negative waves.
Listen carefully i shall say this only once.
If its not broke dont fix it.
Ich Hatt Einen Kameraden
Dont hit me so early in the morning with those negative waves.
Listen carefully i shall say this only once.
If its not broke dont fix it.
Ich Hatt Einen Kameraden
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Well Lee she certainly looks the part, very nice build indeed I have plans to go down the recovery route to, I don't envey your task of dismantling and painting her, not unless it rains for a couple of weeks anyway.
Please keep the photos coming regards Phil
Please keep the photos coming regards Phil
Mechanical engineer.
2 Youtube channels, Phil Woollard and Magpiespyro. Facebook/ Phil Woollard.
Commission builds considered. Pm for my email.
2 Youtube channels, Phil Woollard and Magpiespyro. Facebook/ Phil Woollard.
Commission builds considered. Pm for my email.
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Hello Chaps
I have started to paint the Berg. In yellow at the moment. I wonder what camo??
Lee
I have started to paint the Berg. In yellow at the moment. I wonder what camo??
Lee
http://www.Facebook.com/newthorpemodels
Dont hit me so early in the morning with those negative waves.
Listen carefully i shall say this only once.
If its not broke dont fix it.
Ich Hatt Einen Kameraden
Dont hit me so early in the morning with those negative waves.
Listen carefully i shall say this only once.
If its not broke dont fix it.
Ich Hatt Einen Kameraden
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Lee,
Wartime photos suggest green and red brown over dark yellow, similar to other AFVs and Werkstatt vehicles of particular divisions/theatres. Suspect interior of wooden superstructure given some paint finish as timber would have shown up to Jabos if left unpainted (q.v. interior of tank hatches not being painted a light colour).
Some photographic evidence for large single numbers/letters being painted on superstructure sides and rear panel.
Best source: Panzerwrecks publications.
Care to expand on the problems you have had with suspension and your solutions?
Cheers, Fabrice
Wartime photos suggest green and red brown over dark yellow, similar to other AFVs and Werkstatt vehicles of particular divisions/theatres. Suspect interior of wooden superstructure given some paint finish as timber would have shown up to Jabos if left unpainted (q.v. interior of tank hatches not being painted a light colour).
Some photographic evidence for large single numbers/letters being painted on superstructure sides and rear panel.
Best source: Panzerwrecks publications.
Care to expand on the problems you have had with suspension and your solutions?
Cheers, Fabrice
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Hello Chaps
My BergPanther Is now finished. I will be taking it to the openday.
Lee
My BergPanther Is now finished. I will be taking it to the openday.
Lee
http://www.Facebook.com/newthorpemodels
Dont hit me so early in the morning with those negative waves.
Listen carefully i shall say this only once.
If its not broke dont fix it.
Ich Hatt Einen Kameraden
Dont hit me so early in the morning with those negative waves.
Listen carefully i shall say this only once.
If its not broke dont fix it.
Ich Hatt Einen Kameraden
- Robert E Morey
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Re: No 14 BergPanther Build
Hello Robert
Sorry i dont have the means to do so. But i can send you some if you PM your email
Lee
Sorry i dont have the means to do so. But i can send you some if you PM your email
Lee
http://www.Facebook.com/newthorpemodels
Dont hit me so early in the morning with those negative waves.
Listen carefully i shall say this only once.
If its not broke dont fix it.
Ich Hatt Einen Kameraden
Dont hit me so early in the morning with those negative waves.
Listen carefully i shall say this only once.
If its not broke dont fix it.
Ich Hatt Einen Kameraden
- Robert E Morey
- Posts: 2295
- Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:59 am
- Location: Seattle, WA USA
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Re: No 14 BergPanther Build
Hi Lee,
I PM'd my email to you. Would love to see some pix of your Berg. Perhaps with the new format you didn't get my PM? I know you are busy,
Thanks,
Bob
I PM'd my email to you. Would love to see some pix of your Berg. Perhaps with the new format you didn't get my PM? I know you are busy,
Thanks,
Bob
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Re: No 14 BergPanther Build
Hello Chaps
Here are a couple of photos of my Award winning Bergpanther
Lee
Here are a couple of photos of my Award winning Bergpanther
Lee
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http://www.Facebook.com/newthorpemodels
Dont hit me so early in the morning with those negative waves.
Listen carefully i shall say this only once.
If its not broke dont fix it.
Ich Hatt Einen Kameraden
Dont hit me so early in the morning with those negative waves.
Listen carefully i shall say this only once.
If its not broke dont fix it.
Ich Hatt Einen Kameraden
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Re: No 14 BergPanther Build
Hi lee
great looking bergpanther you must be very pleased with the end result ,congratulations on winning the award.
regards
nick
great looking bergpanther you must be very pleased with the end result ,congratulations on winning the award.
regards
nick
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Re: No 14 BergPanther Build
Hello Chaps
I will be takeing my Bergpanther to militaria 2012 and will be on the UK Tank club Stand.
Lee
I will be takeing my Bergpanther to militaria 2012 and will be on the UK Tank club Stand.
Lee
http://www.Facebook.com/newthorpemodels
Dont hit me so early in the morning with those negative waves.
Listen carefully i shall say this only once.
If its not broke dont fix it.
Ich Hatt Einen Kameraden
Dont hit me so early in the morning with those negative waves.
Listen carefully i shall say this only once.
If its not broke dont fix it.
Ich Hatt Einen Kameraden
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