To much smoke

Phil Woollard · Post by **Phil Woollard** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:15 am

I've been studing this for a while now, I know that lots of smoke from the exhaust indoors equates to not so much outdoors but I think we are missing something,(quality rather than quantity) genereally a good belch on start up then it clears then the occasional blast as the engine revs and the vehicle turns or excellerates and then just a very small amount looks more realistic certainly on film
I would suggest that less smoke but more pressure maybe the way forward, if you take a look at an afv engine running there are massive amounts of air being drawn in and even more volume being blown out with just a small amount of visible soot and oil smoke, unless there is an engine problem of course.

Paul Morris · Post by **Paul Morris** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:32 pm

Hi Phil.

Couldnt agree more with what you are saying

Cheers Paul

Adrian Harris · Post by **Adrian Harris** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:33 pm

The trouble with the heating element type smoker is that there comes a point where the amountof air being blown through it reduces the temperature of the element so much that it stops producing smoke altogether.

I don't know if the water based piezo ones would be better able to cope with a stronger fan or not. One for Richie I guess.

Adrian.

Phil Woollard · Post by **Phil Woollard** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:46 pm

How does the piezo system work dude? I believe it vibrates and so would atomize the fluid ie the water?

Brian Leach · Post by **Brian Leach** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:34 pm

Maybe two tubes, one generating the smoke, one with a variable amount of air flow would work (ignore the periods)

air ......................... oil
flow........................smoke
..[.............................]
..[.............................]
...->---------------<-
..................I
..................I
..................I
..................v
...............output

Have a little restricter at the oil smoke inlet that opens up upon accelleration, giving that characteristic puff of smoke.

Would that work?

Brian

Ad Wouterse · Post by **Ad Wouterse** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:17 pm

Hi guys,

Take a look at the site of Thomas Benedini (http://www.benedini.de) in the English section. You will find a lot of information on both the oil- and watervapourbased smoke units.
The watervapour version works well, but the final effect is influenced by the outdoor temperature.

Allan Richards · Post by **Allan Richards** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:19 pm

Hi, when building my Sherman I designed a smoker which would put out a trickle of smoke then a belch as the throttle was opened. You can see that the design is base on a rotating air valve worked by a servo in parallel with the throttle. At "idle there is just a 3mm hole from the fan through into the smoker giving a gentle trickle of smoke. As thee throttle is opened the valve turns and alows a large area to be exposed to the fan which blows all the smoke out of the exhaust. The element (a 12v soldering iron element) is shielded to prevent the fan air cooling it too much. It works well but I wonder what the best fuid is to use. I generall use baby oil but I thinking that proper smoke oil might be better even though it is quite expensive.

Antony Rowley · Post by **Antony Rowley** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:20 pm

Below is an interesting video of a running Panther G. It's fascinating to see the different colours of smoke (density) and the actual height the smoke reaches when the throttle is opened up. The force of the smoke out of the exhausts is something that hasn't been replicated yet but maybe with Richie's bigger fan this will be

Thanks Antony

Adrian Harris · Post by **Adrian Harris** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:37 pm

Interesting to compare that Panther to the Flammpanzer III on the same page, which seems to be followed by a low blue haze all the way round the course.

I do wonder why they seem to run them at such high revs though. The Littlefield Panther seems to be able to move itself around without apparently rising above an idle.

Adrian.

Phil Woollard · Post by **Phil Woollard** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:42 am

Yep pressure/volume that's the way forward, the gas being blown out the exhausts creates it's own symphony, nice Panther vid.

Darryl Vernon · Post by **Darryl Vernon** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:10 am

Adrian Harris wrote:
I do wonder why they seem to run them at such high revs though. The Littlefield Panther seems to be able to move itself around without apparently rising above an idle.

Adrian.

Was thinking the same thing. They probably think it sounds impressive for the crowds.

Personally, I prefer the sound of a large engine loping along, rather than being thrashed to the max.

Also, after spending the huge amounts of time and money it takes to rebuild a vehicle like those shown on the vids, I'd be very inclined to show them a little more mechanical sympathy.

Adrian Harris · Post by **Adrian Harris** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:08 pm

> They probably think it sounds impressive for the crowds.

Big engines do sound impressive, until they follow the fate of the first Tiger Maybach and let the internals out through unexpected holes in the casing

Adrian.

phil fitzpatrick · Post by **phil fitzpatrick** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:42 pm

Hi Guys
Yet another great topic I have been following,and I agree with what
everyone has contributed.
But what goods a debate without someone shouting up from the back
bench.
Get your Tankfest dvd out guys,like I did yet again tonight and have a
good look at the opening shots of the T34 it puts my little vidio showing
off Richie's smoker fitted in my Comet,turned full up to shame.
Engine wear like Phil said is a reallity.
Look again at the T34 later in the Show shots and also the 2 shermans,
not sure whether they were from the Wheatcroft collection,but very
smokie.
The Cheiftains were almost as smokie as the T34 later on I dont know
whether this was due to like the comentator said the Cheiftains engine
was not up to the job of pulling the heavy armour and was un reliable.
Later the FV432 Armoured Personnel Carrier was smokie but it did have
the power that was mentioned.
There was probably several more suspects but the exhausts were masked
by the dry sandy dust(roll on the summer).
I think Ritchie's equipment is very adjustable to most tastes and maybe
with some experimenting with narrower bores or crimping in the pipes,
would help with the visible pressure.
Even if that crimped or smaller bore was hidden inside the scale pipe.
Has any one tried out a bit of black die in with the baby oil or other fuel,
to see what effect that has on the colour of the exhaust.
There was a Tank,I cant remember which one on the Tankfest vidio,
that was pumping out smoke but it was very rich.
I shall have to watch it again

Cheers
Phil

Adrian Harris · Post by **Adrian Harris** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:27 am

>Engine wear like Phil said is a reallity

But one problem with TankFest is that the engines are 65 years old, not 65 days.

There can't have been many tanks running around in WW2 with more than a few hundred miles on the clock.

Adrian.

Phil Woollard · Post by **Phil Woollard** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:33 am

I think generally we are trying to replicate gas/petrol engines which don't smoke to much, when we get on to the chieftan thats a multi fuel two stroke and smoked like hell from new! As with the diesels especially those from the Easted block they were so crudley made they carried gallons of oil around as standard to replenish the sumps as it was burnt during normal running.
I am looking at buying a 432 in the nr future this has a K60 RR multi fuel engine which I intend to run on heating oil, this will smoke good.

To much smoke

To much smoke

Exhaust Smoke