Way cool!
Look forward to seeing what's next.
Best regards
Tim
Kent`s Panther build
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Tim Bowman
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Kent Wiik
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Hi again all!
Just to show that this saga is still alive here is a little something now at X-mas
Remember this one?
A while after I finished the pair Per Sonnervik phoned me and in a humble way asked me if I didn’t regarded them as a “bit to high”
Indeed they are and how on earth did I miss that?
All well seen in this photo:
As I had a pair of Tim’s shrouds in the pipeline for a future Jagdpanther I decided to take them instead to the Panther.
Tim’s are a work of art! And the resin they are made in is very easy to work with and still not a bit brittle, I simply love them.
Rounding off sharp edges is very easy to do.
One thing I changed on them was the number of bulbs (sorry don’t know the English technical term for this so I simply called them bulbs here).
Seen here in a photo of “my” Panther one can see it had the 3-bulb shrouds.
Another thing I did was to make the spokes and the centre circle higher.
Seen in this drawing went deeper down then the engine deck top.
Don’t know how much of it will be seen under the mesh but the feeling was good.
To make this an easy one I left the spokes square with the outer ring.
Made this with epoxy, quite relaxing and not that difficult to do.
What did the cast numbers look like, how many and were was thy located on an Early Ausf G 3-buld shroud?
Well find this answer in a book, forget it!
The Houffalize Ausf G had 4-bulbs and the numbers was 28 in front and up side down.
The Overloon Ausf G also had 4-bulbs and it numbers was 14? (maybe 140) also in front and up side down.
But that was the 4-bulb variant. How about the 3-bulbed?
The Aberdeen Ausf G had the 3-bulbed type but in every photo I have no numbers are visible.
Better luck then with the Saumur Ausf G.
Correct 3-bulbs and after much studying I had an answer.
There at one of the inner spokes the number 80 up side down can be seen.
I changed the number of bulbs, add cast number 80 and also add the depressions at the bolts + some cast surface the result was this:
Next to do is the mesh for them.
One last thing…
You might wonder was there no cast numbers on the air intake grills as well?
They were cast just like the shrouds and shall have cast numbers.
Yes they had.
But is a place no one will ever notice so we can leave them.
As always thanks for watching.
Kent
Just to show that this saga is still alive here is a little something now at X-mas
Remember this one?
A while after I finished the pair Per Sonnervik phoned me and in a humble way asked me if I didn’t regarded them as a “bit to high”
Indeed they are and how on earth did I miss that?
All well seen in this photo:
As I had a pair of Tim’s shrouds in the pipeline for a future Jagdpanther I decided to take them instead to the Panther.
Tim’s are a work of art! And the resin they are made in is very easy to work with and still not a bit brittle, I simply love them.
Rounding off sharp edges is very easy to do.
One thing I changed on them was the number of bulbs (sorry don’t know the English technical term for this so I simply called them bulbs here).
Seen here in a photo of “my” Panther one can see it had the 3-bulb shrouds.
Another thing I did was to make the spokes and the centre circle higher.
Seen in this drawing went deeper down then the engine deck top.
Don’t know how much of it will be seen under the mesh but the feeling was good.
To make this an easy one I left the spokes square with the outer ring.
Made this with epoxy, quite relaxing and not that difficult to do.
What did the cast numbers look like, how many and were was thy located on an Early Ausf G 3-buld shroud?
Well find this answer in a book, forget it!
The Houffalize Ausf G had 4-bulbs and the numbers was 28 in front and up side down.
The Overloon Ausf G also had 4-bulbs and it numbers was 14? (maybe 140) also in front and up side down.
But that was the 4-bulb variant. How about the 3-bulbed?
The Aberdeen Ausf G had the 3-bulbed type but in every photo I have no numbers are visible.
Better luck then with the Saumur Ausf G.
Correct 3-bulbs and after much studying I had an answer.
There at one of the inner spokes the number 80 up side down can be seen.
I changed the number of bulbs, add cast number 80 and also add the depressions at the bolts + some cast surface the result was this:
Next to do is the mesh for them.
One last thing…
You might wonder was there no cast numbers on the air intake grills as well?
They were cast just like the shrouds and shall have cast numbers.
Yes they had.
But is a place no one will ever notice so we can leave them.
As always thanks for watching.
Kent
Last edited by Kent Wiik on Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.
It´s all in the details!
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Brian Leach
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Kent Wiik
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Hi guys,
Thanks for the kind words, much appreciated.
Steve//
That photo is from the Patton Museum Late Ausf G made in April 1945 by MAN.
The idler is of the standard late self-cleaning type and was the new standard since October 1944.
It had a bigger diameter then the earlier type (665mm) and was introduced as mud and ice build up inside the original idler had become a mayor problem.
Here is another photo of that Patton idler.
But now to something completely different...
Today something tiny but quite visible at the rear of the Panther, an item I have had in mind for a long time keeping my eyes for “good to have material” to make it.
Item CH0634 and called “Convoy Light” but is not.
In German it is called “Katzen Augen” (Cat eye) or reflector tag, a Convoy Light is something very different and will be spoken of later.
This is how the kit part looks:
And this is how the real thing looks:
(never mind that red arrow)
No idea spending time converting the kit part so I had to scratch build a new one.
WW2 photos of the real thing are hard to find as we seldom sees photos from the rear.
And when found the reflector is probably broken, dirty or to tiny to bee seen.
Here is anyhow a decent one and please note how the outer ring was quite shiny.
There were different types of reflectors used on Panthers then on Tiger I.
Here is a photo of real Panther one:
It was fasten to the steel bracket with a single screw with nut.
For Panther Ausf G there was 2 size of them, 50mm or 60mm diameter.
As the smaller one was used on earlier Ausf G that size was for me.
And here is a Tiger I one:
Note the different in types and how the 6-edged prism pattern is evident on both.
This pattern was something I wanted to create and sadly never seen in any aftermarket reflectors.
Here is a photo of the Littlefield Panther.
The bracket is ok but the reflector is wrong, it is the Tiger I type – sad.
This is more like it:
Please note how the bracket was bended in shape with rather rounded curves.
Maybe due to the fact that this item often got squashed.
Made the bracket from 6mm wide spare areas from my Hetzer kit brass sheet, the ring is from an 11/32 brass tube (a whole 1,5mm was needed…).
But the problem was the lens…
Dig where you stand was the motto and have I been digging…
In my youngest sons toy box I found his toy robot and look…it had a red plastic visor in perfect colour and size, I wanted that one badly!
Persuading the robot was dead and would never function again (no juice in the batteries…) was my plan and it worked, the lens was mine.
When he realised his father had found a value in it he was fast to claim money for it (cunning child, his mother must have told him this…)
With a promise of x-tra Saturday candy the deal was set and the work begun.
The 6-edged prism pattern I made by using a medicine package that had a nice dot pattern to be placed under the lens.
With a sharp knife I made a square pattern between the bots and also at the rear of the lens.
The end result was quite stunning.
This is how it turned out in the end with all metal parts silver soldered, the other ones glued and everything painted:
(A real reflector tag to the right as comparison)
Now I just need to find another toy robot to make the reflector tag for my Tiger I as well.
As always thanks for watching
Kent
Thanks for the kind words, much appreciated.
Steve//
That photo is from the Patton Museum Late Ausf G made in April 1945 by MAN.
The idler is of the standard late self-cleaning type and was the new standard since October 1944.
It had a bigger diameter then the earlier type (665mm) and was introduced as mud and ice build up inside the original idler had become a mayor problem.
Here is another photo of that Patton idler.
But now to something completely different...
Today something tiny but quite visible at the rear of the Panther, an item I have had in mind for a long time keeping my eyes for “good to have material” to make it.
Item CH0634 and called “Convoy Light” but is not.
In German it is called “Katzen Augen” (Cat eye) or reflector tag, a Convoy Light is something very different and will be spoken of later.
This is how the kit part looks:
And this is how the real thing looks:
(never mind that red arrow)
No idea spending time converting the kit part so I had to scratch build a new one.
WW2 photos of the real thing are hard to find as we seldom sees photos from the rear.
And when found the reflector is probably broken, dirty or to tiny to bee seen.
Here is anyhow a decent one and please note how the outer ring was quite shiny.
There were different types of reflectors used on Panthers then on Tiger I.
Here is a photo of real Panther one:
It was fasten to the steel bracket with a single screw with nut.
For Panther Ausf G there was 2 size of them, 50mm or 60mm diameter.
As the smaller one was used on earlier Ausf G that size was for me.
And here is a Tiger I one:
Note the different in types and how the 6-edged prism pattern is evident on both.
This pattern was something I wanted to create and sadly never seen in any aftermarket reflectors.
Here is a photo of the Littlefield Panther.
The bracket is ok but the reflector is wrong, it is the Tiger I type – sad.
This is more like it:
Please note how the bracket was bended in shape with rather rounded curves.
Maybe due to the fact that this item often got squashed.
Made the bracket from 6mm wide spare areas from my Hetzer kit brass sheet, the ring is from an 11/32 brass tube (a whole 1,5mm was needed…).
But the problem was the lens…
Dig where you stand was the motto and have I been digging…
In my youngest sons toy box I found his toy robot and look…it had a red plastic visor in perfect colour and size, I wanted that one badly!
Persuading the robot was dead and would never function again (no juice in the batteries…) was my plan and it worked, the lens was mine.
When he realised his father had found a value in it he was fast to claim money for it (cunning child, his mother must have told him this…)
With a promise of x-tra Saturday candy the deal was set and the work begun.
The 6-edged prism pattern I made by using a medicine package that had a nice dot pattern to be placed under the lens.
With a sharp knife I made a square pattern between the bots and also at the rear of the lens.
The end result was quite stunning.
This is how it turned out in the end with all metal parts silver soldered, the other ones glued and everything painted:
(A real reflector tag to the right as comparison)
Now I just need to find another toy robot to make the reflector tag for my Tiger I as well.
As always thanks for watching
Kent
Last edited by Kent Wiik on Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It´s all in the details!
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Steve Norris
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Kent Wiik
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Hi again all!
Just to end this shroud chapter here comes the grills.
The size and design of the mesh is of immense importance and the one Mike Stannard have are perfect.
As I know the kit shroud and Tim’s differs in size I wanted to make my own so I just bought the mesh from Mike and made the ring myself.
The ring was on the real thing made from a 10mm steel rod so a 1,5mm brass is as close as you get.
Easy to bend and was silver soldered in to a ring.
The mesh was applied almost 45 degrees and not square with the engine deck.
Exact fit can be seen here:
Please note what way the mesh was twisted round the ring.
The mesh ends I had to be applied one by one round the ring, with this rather stiff mesh it was a hard work but well worth the effort in the end.
One had to give this some time as the 1,5mm ring is rather fragile and might loose its round shape if too much force was used here.
Also note how the mesh was pressed down due to stepping boots, almost wrapped round the spokes, had to create this as well.
Please note that this ww2 photo is of an Ausf A Panther with its 14 spokes (Ausf G had 12 spokes), however the bended mesh syndrome is the same regardless to Ausf.
The real ring was attached to the shroud with welds at the bulbs so fake welds (1/”bulb”) was also added.
Its length was about 40% of the bulb length as seen in this photo of the Houffalize Panther who still has remnants of its original mesh ring.
For bounding the mesh ring to the shroud glue want do so I used six steel wires with the same thickness as the mesh (0,4mm) in a loop round the mesh ring and then round the base of the 6 spokes with its ends at the outer shroud ring (hope you understand me here…)
This came out almost invincible and I was very proud of myself of this.
The end result all painted TS-3 and slightly weathered.
Final touch will be later (much later…rodnad…) with the over all painting of this Panther.
As always thanks for watching.
Kent
Just to end this shroud chapter here comes the grills.
The size and design of the mesh is of immense importance and the one Mike Stannard have are perfect.
As I know the kit shroud and Tim’s differs in size I wanted to make my own so I just bought the mesh from Mike and made the ring myself.
The ring was on the real thing made from a 10mm steel rod so a 1,5mm brass is as close as you get.
Easy to bend and was silver soldered in to a ring.
The mesh was applied almost 45 degrees and not square with the engine deck.
Exact fit can be seen here:
Please note what way the mesh was twisted round the ring.
The mesh ends I had to be applied one by one round the ring, with this rather stiff mesh it was a hard work but well worth the effort in the end.
One had to give this some time as the 1,5mm ring is rather fragile and might loose its round shape if too much force was used here.
Also note how the mesh was pressed down due to stepping boots, almost wrapped round the spokes, had to create this as well.
Please note that this ww2 photo is of an Ausf A Panther with its 14 spokes (Ausf G had 12 spokes), however the bended mesh syndrome is the same regardless to Ausf.
The real ring was attached to the shroud with welds at the bulbs so fake welds (1/”bulb”) was also added.
Its length was about 40% of the bulb length as seen in this photo of the Houffalize Panther who still has remnants of its original mesh ring.
For bounding the mesh ring to the shroud glue want do so I used six steel wires with the same thickness as the mesh (0,4mm) in a loop round the mesh ring and then round the base of the 6 spokes with its ends at the outer shroud ring (hope you understand me here…)
This came out almost invincible and I was very proud of myself of this.
The end result all painted TS-3 and slightly weathered.
Final touch will be later (much later…rodnad…) with the over all painting of this Panther.
As always thanks for watching.
Kent
Last edited by Kent Wiik on Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It´s all in the details!
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simon_manning
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Kent Wiik
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Hi Simon,simon_manning wrote:is your vent the same as the small vent on my G
Thanks for commenting so I know atleast someone reads this saga.
Yes, this type of shroud was also in use for a Late Ausf G.
But maybe the type with 4 "bulbs" just as Tim has made them are more appropriate for the Late Ausf G but then at the end of the war everything was possible...
But now to something completely different...
Today the cast armored exhaust guards and pipes.
When I many moons ago heard that the Armortek Panther was to bee an Ausf G I decided to make my own as an early G.
That´s because my keen interest in WW2 is the period spring 44 until winter 44-45 and mainly the “zimmerit period”
Two mayor items was in need to have to convert the kit Late model to my desired Early.
New idlers and the early, cast Ausf G armored exhaust guards.
Late:
Early:
Two absolute must have and I was prepared to convert the kit parts alternative make new ones.
But my workshop is not that well equipped and metal casting is a blank paper on my cv to put it mild…
Thanks to this forum it was easy to get in contact with others sharing a desire for the early G.
Fellow hobbyist with better skills in metal work and workshops I can only dream about.
My US friend Bob Morey made the early guards cast in metal with a stunning result, absolute world class items and I can´t cheer them enough.
I am sure you all have seen them and can confirm my high thoughts about Bobs work.
One thing I wanted to add to them was the cast numbers/letters seen on the real thing.
As the rivetcounter I am I wanted the number/letters to correspond historically to an early Ausf G but that was easier said then done…
There is only one surviving early Ausf G with the correct cast guards left and that is the Houffalize Panther.
Every other now existing Panther Ausf G has the welded or the late cast guards
No good enough photo can be found on the net revealing what number/letters the Houffalize guards had but here the forum come to an aid again.
As I live high up in Sweden very, very far from Houffalize to go and have a look for myself our Belgian member Sven Strobbe came to my aid.
Also I have to mention another hobby friend not a member here but well known on other forum with the nick “rivetcounter”, Mark from UK now living in Brussels was also kindly assisting me in this research for the “truth”.
Here is now, thanks to Sven, for the first time a good photo of the Houffalize guards:
The 2 guards don´t have the same letter/number outfit so there was obviously a huge variation.
The left one with its 2 rows looks more interesting and that was my choice for both of my guards.
Also not that both “normal” and castle nuts was used at the 4 taped bolts and that only 2 / guard was used (left one for convoy light and the right one for starter crank bracket)
As to tiny nuts are in use here I had not small fingers enough to create castle nuts this time.
Don´t make much sense at a first glimpse but rotating it 180 degrees one can see the 2 rows are “CKC” and “712” with the “712” with insert plates.
As “CKC, 712” obviously never was on my 12SS #126 I went for “CKC, 713” and “CKC, 715”
Also I made the 4 bolts from M3 screws with M2,5 locking nuts cut out to look like castle nuts.
Added the circular top plate and changed the location for the bolt holes a bit.
The both exhaust guard positions at the rear plate are also in need for correction but more of that later.
And the exhaust pipes:
Looking at a real Panther one notice how thin the steel the pipes are made of.
Not thick as the King Tigers and there fore so often seen “banged up” taking a lot of punishment.
I wanted to have them with thin ends like that and bought some 9/16x0.014 brass tube to make the pipes from.
Well that was plan A but boy was I in for some disappointment…
Begun in all good faith heating and with a tool that was supposed to bring a nice curved bending them but I soon had to realize my skills in this wasn’t enough for this kind of metal work.
The tube thickness was simply to thin to be bent so time for plan B…
As mentioned before I am a happy owner of one of the outstanding aftermarket exhaust set from Bob.
Bob made nice looking curved ends from cast white metal but that comes with a price, the thickness is a bit too thick.
Yes it might be possible to remove some with Mr Dremel but then become too brittle for creating the “banged up” look.
Decided to cut of 3mm and make new ends from my by now badly damaged brass tubes.
Did also silver solder a brass pin to the part.
Superglue + Epoxy putty, some grinding and removing some material inside to have a smooth crossing between the brass and white metal.
Looking at the real thing one also notice the bending marks caused by the use of so thin thickness.
Made them with a small file.
Please note how the pipes were rusted all the way down including the coupling.
This photo is from the Saumur Ausf A frequently used running in shows at least 2 times/year.
I used “RUSTALL” + Mr Surfacer here to create the rust effect.
I know there are other techniques and products but wanted to try RUSTALL here.
Sadly it is a US product and can’t be sent by air according to new regulations.
But there is a way to go round it if the stuff is shipped without the diluted Alcohol for you to be added at arrival.
I did so and it worked but I found RUSTALL quite tricky to use at first as it is very important to let it dry between layers.
Well here is the end result:
Be kind to me as this was my first attempt top paint rust myself.
Everything will get weathered with the rest of the Panther in the end.
(will also bang up the pipes a bit more later on)
As always thanks for watching.
Kent
Last edited by Kent Wiik on Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
It´s all in the details!
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simon_manning
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Steve Norris
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Kent.
I always look forward to your postings although sometimes i do not comment if i do not have anything constructive to add.
With the amount of people viewing this forum it would be nice if there were more replies, after all the more people that get involved the more we can learn from each other.
So all those just viewing, dont be afraid, make comments, start posts, get involved.
Regards
Steve
I always look forward to your postings although sometimes i do not comment if i do not have anything constructive to add.
With the amount of people viewing this forum it would be nice if there were more replies, after all the more people that get involved the more we can learn from each other.
So all those just viewing, dont be afraid, make comments, start posts, get involved.
Regards
Steve
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Tim Bowman
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