Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann
- AlastairCooke
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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann
Hi All,
Update 21 Oct 2024
Curved support… Support in use drilling locating holes for the track hanger pins… Note use of shaped bases for G clamps.
Track links for turret sides have been drilled and tapped for M3 so that a fixing can be used from the inside. The hole will be hidden by spare track pins. One link was drilled from the tread side to align the hole and the others were drilled from the rear as they could be held more firmly in a vice in that orientation.
Turret front plate
I have now reached a stage that I has had me concerned for some considerable time: reshaping the front turret plate ends and including weld detail. I wanted to ensure that the Milliput welds had reasonable purchase around these details. It was not possible to cut slots into the turret wall before assembly as the piece far exceeded the capacity of my mill. I decided to use a Dremel with a router bit and attack the aluminium by hand. The ends of the bar were filed flush with the turret sides then drilled to accept a capping piece that will be epoxied in place after the turret has been etch primed. The steel trunnion boss was used as a guide for the circular slot. As you can see, some additional shaping of the slots is required.
Zimmerit
As work progresses on the external details for the turret sides, thoughts turn towards Zimmerit. At this stage I am more concerned with where rather than how. Having established that the turret was taken from a vehicle that was delivered in late May 43, it is safe to assume that it arrived at Pz.Ers.Abt. 500 painted in Dunkelgelb but without a coat of Zimmerit. This means that the Zimmerit was applied at the School’s workshop after the general order was issued in Aug 43.
Careful study of images taken subsequent to the demise of F01, in Apr 45, highlights some interesting issues with the application of the Zimmerit paste. On both sides the paste was not applied forward of the lift lug and did not reach the roof on the left side as evidenced by the sharp ‘demarcation’ lines that suggest intent rather that wear. In addition, the pattern changes just aft of the vision port indicating a different batch of paste or a different hand. The pistol port appears to have had the paste applied when removed from the turret, as the ridge pattern does not align with the surrounding area. As the vehicle was based at the Training School it is possible that the application of the coating was a training exercise or done piecemeal when the opportunity arose.
When the time comes I will do my best to mimic this haphazard application.
That's all for now...
Update 21 Oct 2024
Curved support… Support in use drilling locating holes for the track hanger pins… Note use of shaped bases for G clamps.
Track links for turret sides have been drilled and tapped for M3 so that a fixing can be used from the inside. The hole will be hidden by spare track pins. One link was drilled from the tread side to align the hole and the others were drilled from the rear as they could be held more firmly in a vice in that orientation.
Turret front plate
I have now reached a stage that I has had me concerned for some considerable time: reshaping the front turret plate ends and including weld detail. I wanted to ensure that the Milliput welds had reasonable purchase around these details. It was not possible to cut slots into the turret wall before assembly as the piece far exceeded the capacity of my mill. I decided to use a Dremel with a router bit and attack the aluminium by hand. The ends of the bar were filed flush with the turret sides then drilled to accept a capping piece that will be epoxied in place after the turret has been etch primed. The steel trunnion boss was used as a guide for the circular slot. As you can see, some additional shaping of the slots is required.
Zimmerit
As work progresses on the external details for the turret sides, thoughts turn towards Zimmerit. At this stage I am more concerned with where rather than how. Having established that the turret was taken from a vehicle that was delivered in late May 43, it is safe to assume that it arrived at Pz.Ers.Abt. 500 painted in Dunkelgelb but without a coat of Zimmerit. This means that the Zimmerit was applied at the School’s workshop after the general order was issued in Aug 43.
Careful study of images taken subsequent to the demise of F01, in Apr 45, highlights some interesting issues with the application of the Zimmerit paste. On both sides the paste was not applied forward of the lift lug and did not reach the roof on the left side as evidenced by the sharp ‘demarcation’ lines that suggest intent rather that wear. In addition, the pattern changes just aft of the vision port indicating a different batch of paste or a different hand. The pistol port appears to have had the paste applied when removed from the turret, as the ridge pattern does not align with the surrounding area. As the vehicle was based at the Training School it is possible that the application of the coating was a training exercise or done piecemeal when the opportunity arose.
When the time comes I will do my best to mimic this haphazard application.
That's all for now...
Alastair
Tiger 1 (2015 #01 with 2012 parts)
Tiger 1 (2015 #01 with 2012 parts)
- AlastairCooke
- Posts: 231
- Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:59 am
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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann
Hi All,
Update 10 Nov 24
The stock trunnion pins were turned down so that the bosses could be permanently installed on the turret sides and have weld detail added. The heads were also reduced to a diameter of 14mm to match the head on the rear boss. Bosses and front plate ends epoxied in position… Note the addition of a part that represents the torch cut remnant of the smoke grenade launcher system
Turret vision ports
The stock parts were replaced with a more accurate design that allows for some internal detail. Pistol port
As with the vision ports I decided to replace the stock part. First, however the securing bolts need some attention to better replicate the coned taper bolts used on the prototype. The hex heads were turned down and will be ‘let into’ the outer plate. Not sure yet whether to use moulded pins or the M3 cone head bolts to secure the outer plate. It depends on the ease with which the cone bolts can be turned before applying thread lock. I will be tapping the holes anyway for studs on the inside to mimic the through bolts.
Turret electrics
I have started to layout the components for the electrical circuit in the turret. Note that mine is completely separate from the chassis circuits and so I need another battery, relay, switch, charging socket, 12V/5V buck converter, receiver, elevation motor driver, microcomputer, and a fuse box. The item at the front of the plate is the mounting for some ‘piggy-back’ shocks that will be fitted without springs to act as dampers to minimise ‘barrel bounce’.
That's all for now.
Update 10 Nov 24
The stock trunnion pins were turned down so that the bosses could be permanently installed on the turret sides and have weld detail added. The heads were also reduced to a diameter of 14mm to match the head on the rear boss. Bosses and front plate ends epoxied in position… Note the addition of a part that represents the torch cut remnant of the smoke grenade launcher system
Turret vision ports
The stock parts were replaced with a more accurate design that allows for some internal detail. Pistol port
As with the vision ports I decided to replace the stock part. First, however the securing bolts need some attention to better replicate the coned taper bolts used on the prototype. The hex heads were turned down and will be ‘let into’ the outer plate. Not sure yet whether to use moulded pins or the M3 cone head bolts to secure the outer plate. It depends on the ease with which the cone bolts can be turned before applying thread lock. I will be tapping the holes anyway for studs on the inside to mimic the through bolts.
Turret electrics
I have started to layout the components for the electrical circuit in the turret. Note that mine is completely separate from the chassis circuits and so I need another battery, relay, switch, charging socket, 12V/5V buck converter, receiver, elevation motor driver, microcomputer, and a fuse box. The item at the front of the plate is the mounting for some ‘piggy-back’ shocks that will be fitted without springs to act as dampers to minimise ‘barrel bounce’.
That's all for now.
Alastair
Tiger 1 (2015 #01 with 2012 parts)
Tiger 1 (2015 #01 with 2012 parts)
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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann
Reducing barrel bounce! That will be exciting!
A little too much is about right...
- AlastairCooke
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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann
Yes, Christoffer. Time will tell if my plan works... I am fitting a pair of Gmade XD shocks.
Alastair
Tiger 1 (2015 #01 with 2012 parts)
Tiger 1 (2015 #01 with 2012 parts)
- AlastairCooke
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- Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:59 am
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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann
Hi All,
Update 26 Nov 24
Turret side weld detail
Turret Electrics
Started to wire up the electrics. Note the relay rating: 70A! I am aware that this is seriously overkill but wanted to use the same style of fuse/relay module as the chassis and the only one available had provision for a maxi relay. I am currently designing some boxes for the elevation motor driver and the microcomputer.
Pistol port
Drilling holes for attachment bolts using my ‘bespoke’ rig… Drilling guide in use to position holes and as a flat surface for the tapping guide… Note use of countersink bit as a ‘key’ for the end of the tap to help ensure the thread is straight and true. The drill chuck on this micro-mill is too small for my usual spring-loaded tap guide. All six holes drilled and tapped.
That's all for now.
Update 26 Nov 24
Turret side weld detail
Turret Electrics
Started to wire up the electrics. Note the relay rating: 70A! I am aware that this is seriously overkill but wanted to use the same style of fuse/relay module as the chassis and the only one available had provision for a maxi relay. I am currently designing some boxes for the elevation motor driver and the microcomputer.
Pistol port
Drilling holes for attachment bolts using my ‘bespoke’ rig… Drilling guide in use to position holes and as a flat surface for the tapping guide… Note use of countersink bit as a ‘key’ for the end of the tap to help ensure the thread is straight and true. The drill chuck on this micro-mill is too small for my usual spring-loaded tap guide. All six holes drilled and tapped.
That's all for now.
Alastair
Tiger 1 (2015 #01 with 2012 parts)
Tiger 1 (2015 #01 with 2012 parts)
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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann
Very nice drill tap setup!
Lots of nice detail and wiring!
Later Tim
Lots of nice detail and wiring!
Later Tim
Tampa Bay, Fla area USA.
- AlastairCooke
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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann
Hi Tim,
Thanks. I am glad you think so. Right from the outset I was not looking forward to adding the extra holes into the top and sides of the turret wrap. Hanging the turret off a portable workbench with a fixture to keep it rigid has worked out really well. My micro mill/drill with a head that can rotate a full 360 degrees has been a godsend.
Alastair
Thanks. I am glad you think so. Right from the outset I was not looking forward to adding the extra holes into the top and sides of the turret wrap. Hanging the turret off a portable workbench with a fixture to keep it rigid has worked out really well. My micro mill/drill with a head that can rotate a full 360 degrees has been a godsend.
Alastair
Alastair
Tiger 1 (2015 #01 with 2012 parts)
Tiger 1 (2015 #01 with 2012 parts)
- AlastairCooke
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- Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:59 am
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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann
Hi, Probably the last update of 2024 and so Seasons Greetings to all.
Update 9 Dec 24
Next job, attaching the spare track link hangers and drilling holes in the wrap for securing screws. Hanger pegs epoxied in place (weld detail will be added later). Through hole drilled for M3 fastener. This will be almost invisible when spare track pins are inserted. Left side finished, just need to fit the clips on the top edge of the wrap.
(Note there is an error in the location of the vision slot: it is approximately 10mm too far aft. I became aware of this discrepancy when drilling holes for the track hangers. The issue has been exacerbated by moving the hangers a few millimetres forward to allow removal of the roof. I think that the furthest aft clip is welded over the cupola ring weld on the full size vehicle. I have decided to ignore the error, as I do not have the tooling required to reposition the hole and the problem is only evident when the model is compared with a side view of F01.)
Revised outer part of the pistol port trial fitted…
Escape Hatch
I have revised the hinge block as images of the full-sized Tiger 1 show that was made from two pieces. A plate, with predrilled and tapped holes, was welded to the turret wrap onto which the hinge block was bolted. I have replicated this with a shaped part which will be epoxied to the wrap. The hinge block will be through bolted at a later stage. Revised escape hatch hinge trial fitted…
Front turret roof support and splash guard
Upper splash guard epoxied in place and central roof support dry fitted…
Electronics
Positioning the rest of the turret electronics (enclosures and 12V/5V buck converter)… Elevation speed controller fitted in enclosure.
Mantlet casting number
Research using ‘D.W. to Tiger 1’ indicates that candidates for the turret were part of the original contract given to Dortmund Hoerder Huttenverein (code: amp). However, it is possible that the replacement mantlet came from 250445, 250447, or 250456, which would have had armour produced by Friedrich Krupp AG, Essen (code: bwn). This might explain the neater Zimmerit coating on it as these vehicles were produced in Aug 43 just at the time that factory application started. What little evidence for mantle casting numbers that still exists is rather confusing with late production turrets having DHH markings. A quick look through the ‘Tigers in Combat’ series suggests that many mantlets did not have visible numbers and so the safest option is probably not to bother.
That's all for now...
Update 9 Dec 24
Next job, attaching the spare track link hangers and drilling holes in the wrap for securing screws. Hanger pegs epoxied in place (weld detail will be added later). Through hole drilled for M3 fastener. This will be almost invisible when spare track pins are inserted. Left side finished, just need to fit the clips on the top edge of the wrap.
(Note there is an error in the location of the vision slot: it is approximately 10mm too far aft. I became aware of this discrepancy when drilling holes for the track hangers. The issue has been exacerbated by moving the hangers a few millimetres forward to allow removal of the roof. I think that the furthest aft clip is welded over the cupola ring weld on the full size vehicle. I have decided to ignore the error, as I do not have the tooling required to reposition the hole and the problem is only evident when the model is compared with a side view of F01.)
Revised outer part of the pistol port trial fitted…
Escape Hatch
I have revised the hinge block as images of the full-sized Tiger 1 show that was made from two pieces. A plate, with predrilled and tapped holes, was welded to the turret wrap onto which the hinge block was bolted. I have replicated this with a shaped part which will be epoxied to the wrap. The hinge block will be through bolted at a later stage. Revised escape hatch hinge trial fitted…
Front turret roof support and splash guard
Upper splash guard epoxied in place and central roof support dry fitted…
Electronics
Positioning the rest of the turret electronics (enclosures and 12V/5V buck converter)… Elevation speed controller fitted in enclosure.
Mantlet casting number
Research using ‘D.W. to Tiger 1’ indicates that candidates for the turret were part of the original contract given to Dortmund Hoerder Huttenverein (code: amp). However, it is possible that the replacement mantlet came from 250445, 250447, or 250456, which would have had armour produced by Friedrich Krupp AG, Essen (code: bwn). This might explain the neater Zimmerit coating on it as these vehicles were produced in Aug 43 just at the time that factory application started. What little evidence for mantle casting numbers that still exists is rather confusing with late production turrets having DHH markings. A quick look through the ‘Tigers in Combat’ series suggests that many mantlets did not have visible numbers and so the safest option is probably not to bother.
That's all for now...
Alastair
Tiger 1 (2015 #01 with 2012 parts)
Tiger 1 (2015 #01 with 2012 parts)
- AlastairCooke
- Posts: 231
- Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:59 am
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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann
Hi All,
Update 9 Jan 2025 (Happy New Year )
Just a quick update as I have not done much over Christmas.
Sometime ago I cut four 4.0mm diameter brass pins to ‘lock’ the parts of the rear turret roof support together. With the support in place, I attempted a trial fit of the turret… and the turret roof... Gun elevation
Just received a print of my new motor mounting plate and tried it out... Next jobs are to finish wiring up the turret electronics and finalise fixing of the outer details so that I can prime the interior with red oxide and then add a coat of Elfenbien.
That's all for now
Update 9 Jan 2025 (Happy New Year )
Just a quick update as I have not done much over Christmas.
Sometime ago I cut four 4.0mm diameter brass pins to ‘lock’ the parts of the rear turret roof support together. With the support in place, I attempted a trial fit of the turret… and the turret roof... Gun elevation
Just received a print of my new motor mounting plate and tried it out... Next jobs are to finish wiring up the turret electronics and finalise fixing of the outer details so that I can prime the interior with red oxide and then add a coat of Elfenbien.
That's all for now
Alastair
Tiger 1 (2015 #01 with 2012 parts)
Tiger 1 (2015 #01 with 2012 parts)
- AlastairCooke
- Posts: 231
- Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:59 am
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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann
Hi All,
Update 23 Jan 25
More weld detail added to the turret… Turret roof alignment holes filled and ready for re-priming… Surface texture added by stippling Upol 5 High Build Filler Primer… Will use this technique on the hull sides when the track cable brackets are fixed in place.
Loader’s Periscope
Started work on the Loader’s periscope cover… The cover needs coating with Mr Surfacer as it was made from bent armoured plate rather than being cast.
What do you do when it is raining, and you are waiting for primer to dry. Trial fit some parts ... That's all for now
Update 23 Jan 25
More weld detail added to the turret… Turret roof alignment holes filled and ready for re-priming… Surface texture added by stippling Upol 5 High Build Filler Primer… Will use this technique on the hull sides when the track cable brackets are fixed in place.
Loader’s Periscope
Started work on the Loader’s periscope cover… The cover needs coating with Mr Surfacer as it was made from bent armoured plate rather than being cast.
What do you do when it is raining, and you are waiting for primer to dry. Trial fit some parts ... That's all for now
Alastair
Tiger 1 (2015 #01 with 2012 parts)
Tiger 1 (2015 #01 with 2012 parts)
- AlastairCooke
- Posts: 231
- Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:59 am
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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann
Hi All,
Update 31 Jan 25
It’s finally time for something I have not been looking forward to…Zimmerit! Fortunately, F01 did not carry it on the chassis and with the track hangers and bin in place the area that requires coating is relatively small.
First things, first… what technique to use? Milliput or grout? Time for some test pieces…
Masking off red-oxide primed plate… Materials: mosaic grout and sand or standard Milliput… grout and sand (50-50 mix shown below) on left and standard Milliput on right… Note a screwdriver was used to create the grooves in the grout. It was too wide and too thick, so a tool (shown below) was created and used on the Milliput. The grout/sand mix is too coarse and standard Milliput is rather smooth although much easier to manipulate into position.
Pure grout on left and grout and sand (approximately 90-10 mix) on right… Pure grout produces a reasonably authentic pattern whilst even a small amount of sand prevents detailed shaping. Tried a second layer of pure grout over the 50/50 grout-sand mix. However, this did not produce a very convincing result.
Different tool created for another go… rolled Milliput pushed in place... Pure grout on left with mix of tooling and Milliput on right with the new tool…
Concluding remarks
Addition of sand, unless more finely ground than I used, not only adds little extra realism but makes it very hard to use a tool to get the Zimmerit texture. Pure grout can produce a better result than Milliput but is less repeatable and may be hard to apply to vertical plates and to work round welded items like the track hangers. Whilst Milliput does not produce a grainy texture it stays where it is put and can be easily worked. At this time, I am thinking of using Milliput although this could change. I should finish the turret interior before applying Zimmerit. I would welcome any advice.
That's all for now
Update 31 Jan 25
It’s finally time for something I have not been looking forward to…Zimmerit! Fortunately, F01 did not carry it on the chassis and with the track hangers and bin in place the area that requires coating is relatively small.
First things, first… what technique to use? Milliput or grout? Time for some test pieces…
Masking off red-oxide primed plate… Materials: mosaic grout and sand or standard Milliput… grout and sand (50-50 mix shown below) on left and standard Milliput on right… Note a screwdriver was used to create the grooves in the grout. It was too wide and too thick, so a tool (shown below) was created and used on the Milliput. The grout/sand mix is too coarse and standard Milliput is rather smooth although much easier to manipulate into position.
Pure grout on left and grout and sand (approximately 90-10 mix) on right… Pure grout produces a reasonably authentic pattern whilst even a small amount of sand prevents detailed shaping. Tried a second layer of pure grout over the 50/50 grout-sand mix. However, this did not produce a very convincing result.
Different tool created for another go… rolled Milliput pushed in place... Pure grout on left with mix of tooling and Milliput on right with the new tool…
Concluding remarks
Addition of sand, unless more finely ground than I used, not only adds little extra realism but makes it very hard to use a tool to get the Zimmerit texture. Pure grout can produce a better result than Milliput but is less repeatable and may be hard to apply to vertical plates and to work round welded items like the track hangers. Whilst Milliput does not produce a grainy texture it stays where it is put and can be easily worked. At this time, I am thinking of using Milliput although this could change. I should finish the turret interior before applying Zimmerit. I would welcome any advice.
That's all for now
Alastair
Tiger 1 (2015 #01 with 2012 parts)
Tiger 1 (2015 #01 with 2012 parts)
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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann
Tile Grout has always been my choice due to working time and fine detail, i use a Mike Stannard Zimmerit tool and mix the Grout with PVA glue, you can also add color to the mix to give the Zimmerit a brownish look, for chipping and damaged areas etc, The painting afterwards is important so as to highlight the pattern of the zim and worn parts, your build so far is superb, now you are faced with putting the cherry on the cake, good luck, regards simon.
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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann
I used ready mixed tile adhesive (not grout).First things, first… what technique to use? Milliput or grout? Time for some test pieces…
I wanted to remove one of my first attempts and it was literally rock solid. Had to use a wood chisel to remove.
Vince
- AlastairCooke
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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann
Thanks Simon for your insight.
I have some Zimmerit tools but have not used as them yet because I want to replicate the actual pattern shown on the images of F01... Note that the pattern has quite narrow strips, is incomplete at the top and has differing numbers of ridges in the section nearer the track links.
I went for mosaic grout rather than tile grout as I do not need a 5kg bag which seems to be the smallest size available.
Thanks Vince for your advice.
I did consider a ready mixed adhesive but wanted to try a powder that I could bind with PVA and control the initial consistency to help with adhesion and ease of working.
Some weeks (or more likely months ) away from taking the plunge. So nothing is decided as yet.
Alastair
I have some Zimmerit tools but have not used as them yet because I want to replicate the actual pattern shown on the images of F01... Note that the pattern has quite narrow strips, is incomplete at the top and has differing numbers of ridges in the section nearer the track links.
I went for mosaic grout rather than tile grout as I do not need a 5kg bag which seems to be the smallest size available.
Thanks Vince for your advice.
I did consider a ready mixed adhesive but wanted to try a powder that I could bind with PVA and control the initial consistency to help with adhesion and ease of working.
Some weeks (or more likely months ) away from taking the plunge. So nothing is decided as yet.
Alastair
Alastair
Tiger 1 (2015 #01 with 2012 parts)
Tiger 1 (2015 #01 with 2012 parts)
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Re: Tiger Ausf E “F01” Gruppe Fehrmann
Wow!
My deepest bow for you, for going through the pain of doing the pattern the same way as in real life.
//
My deepest bow for you, for going through the pain of doing the pattern the same way as in real life.
//
A little too much is about right...