Tyre problems and torsion bars

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Dale jordan
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Re: Tyre problems and torsion bars

Post by Dale jordan »

I would try sikaflex marine adhesive black . It would fill the gap as well , plus more time to work with it Dale

Martin Usher
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Re: Tyre problems and torsion bars

Post by Martin Usher »

Onto the tire bonding time myself and had pondered a few Q & A's here, all good reading.
I had wondered about the recess and how it would fill/cure with the rubber clamped around it creating a convex look to the tire.
Thought I would try filling the void with a car body filler/bondo type material and then texturing with a burr for a cross hatch finish, or even lightly glass bead.
looking into Loctite the 480 seems to be the "go to" by General Consensus.
all wheels have been shot with Aluminum Oxide to give a better surface condition and kept free n clean.
will see how it goes.

Martin.

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Chang
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Re: Tyre problems and torsion bars

Post by Chang »

So one thing is for sure : the void between two rims and the rubber tyre needs to be filled with something to make a flash contact surface .

What should it be? Many good stuffs are suggested by experienced builders here already . Here is my 5 cent : 14mm wide rubber stripes cut from 2mm thick rubber roll:
Its thickness is 2mm , about the same depth of the void between rims.
Its thickness is 2mm , about the same depth of the void between rims.
IMG_3179.JPG (71.75 KiB) Viewed 1009 times

The adhesive I used is the strong yet very thin double-side tape :
Strong yet thin. Used on PAK 43 wheels and FAMO diamond plates before.
Strong yet thin. Used on PAK 43 wheels and FAMO diamond plates before.
IMG_3178.JPG (68.83 KiB) Viewed 1009 times

Firstly cut and attach 14mm wide double-side tape to the channel between two rims :
IMG_3180.JPG
IMG_3180.JPG (49.71 KiB) Viewed 1009 times

Then apply the 14mm rubber stripe to the channel :
As you can see the surface of the rim is almost flash now.
As you can see the surface of the rim is almost flash now.
IMG_3181.JPG (54.72 KiB) Viewed 1009 times

From there , I can apply a 24mm wide double-side tape again , followed by putting the wheel's rubber tyre on this now flash rim surface.

No such void on the Idler wheels and 8 support wheels , so only double-side tape is needed.

I knew this idea hasn't been running test yet. So far I found it's very strong.

Of course you can use the Loctite instead of double-side tape.

Any comment are welcome. :mrgreen:

Lerh Chang
Last edited by Chang on Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Paul Sparkes
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Re: Tyre problems and torsion bars

Post by Paul Sparkes »

Chang,

Superb solution, well done.
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Leopard “ The Bear” build with a difference. Big power for good reason.
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Stanislav Yanev
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Re: Tyre problems and torsion bars

Post by Stanislav Yanev »

Guys are these wheels a combination of iron for the main part and aluminum for the assembly in between?
I don't have such a model and it's hard to tell from the pictures and the already assembled wheel details :wink:

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Paul Sparkes
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Re: Tyre problems and torsion bars

Post by Paul Sparkes »

Stanislav Yanev wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2024 10:42 am
Guys are these wheels a combination of iron for the main part and aluminum for the assembly in between?
I don't have such a model and it's hard to tell from the pictures and the already assembled wheel details :wink:
Steel rims bolted to an aluminium hub.
Jagdtiger 2020 number 40. With Gun Smoke, CO2 recoil and Driving on custom Brushless motors.
Leopard “ The Bear” build with a difference. Big power for good reason.
222 scout car
See my YouTube for video's https://www.youtube.com/@TheMinimivic/featured

Stanislav Yanev
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Re: Tyre problems and torsion bars

Post by Stanislav Yanev »

some time ago I found myself in a situation where when moving I lost all the rubber parts for Tiger1 I made my own casting mold and cast new ones on the left is the original AT that my friend served as a model, on the right is mine


Image
Image

Martin Usher
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Re: Tyre problems and torsion bars

Post by Martin Usher »

Chang, i thought the same and offered up 1/16th rubber strip .0625" as i found the measured radial difference approx' .07" with bonding/adhesive both sides it showed the tire lifting away from the wheel.
2mm (.0787") would push it away further surely. not a criticism just an observation.
i am going to try another method this week with bondo and grit.

Martin.

David Merritt
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Re: Tyre problems and torsion bars

Post by David Merritt »

Hi all, I have applied a strip of neoprene rubber to the recess in the rim which is 1.5mm thick x 14.5mm wide (is was ordered as 15mm wide but was supplied 14.5mm wide which is an almost perfect fit for the recess).
When the tyre is installed there is no gap between the rim and the tyre and the tyre has a good grip on the neoprene rubber insert.and when you press the middle of the tyre there is no give.
When adhesive is applied it should give a much better grip of the tyre to the rim as there is a greater surface area to adhere to.

David
Attachments
Type fit on rim with insert and no adhesive
Type fit on rim with insert and no adhesive
Type with insert visible
Type with insert visible

Martin Usher
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Re: Tyre problems and torsion bars

Post by Martin Usher »

Found a tin of car body filler/Bondo type and set to work trying to fill the void (so to speak) first attempt failed as product went off faster than i could work it.
second times a charm, worked fairly quickly and applied to wheel, smoothed over as best i could... no expert as you can see.
brought to my shop and ran through Aluminum oxide grit blast to rough up surface and decontaminate the wheel.
think it looks ok with a good bonding surface for the tyre to bind to, still not sure of the correct adhesive to use yet, may call the local Loctite rep in for a chat.
also found 1.4MM rubber cut to strips as above post by Dave. agree with his finding on no gap and no forcing the tyre off.
Attachments
WHEEL BONDO.jpg
BONDO TEX.jpg

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Chang
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Re: Tyre problems and torsion bars

Post by Chang »

Good to see David and Martin found a better way to fill up the void.

Have measured the thickness of the rubber roll this morning. It's about 1.6~1.75mm ,not 2mm as I had mentioned earlier. :mrgreen:

Cheers,
Lerh Chang
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Tom Miller
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Re: Tyre problems and torsion bars

Post by Tom Miller »

Hello Everyone,
I have just finished attaching the tyres to the hubs on my Leopard. They are so well bonded that the parent tyre material will tear before it detaches from the steel hub ridges. While I don't see any problem with the solutions discussed here in my experience it is not necessary.
The process I used was:
Clean the steel hubs with degreaser.
Soak the hubs in POR 15 metal prep for 20 minutes. (I do this before painting all the parts in these kits.)
Sand the ridges on the hub where the tyre will attach with 60 grit sand paper.
Apply locktite 480 evenly to both ridges on the hub.
Place the tyre on a flat table with a thin rag under it to absorbe any 480 that will come through.
Push the hub through the tyre making sure it sits flat on the rag and table.
Wipe any excess 480 from the edge on the rim and make sure the tyre is also flat on the rag and table.
Attach two thick rubber bands over the edges on the tyre where the ridges meet the tyre.
Let the assembly sit for a few minutes and remove the rubber bands.
I have used this method on all 8 Armortek kits I have built and never had a tyre come loose.
Tom
Last edited by Tom Miller on Thu Jun 06, 2024 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Paul Sparkes
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Re: Tyre problems and torsion bars

Post by Paul Sparkes »

Tom Miller wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2024 6:08 pm
Hello Everyone,
I have just finished attaching the tyres to the hubs on my Leopard. They are so well bonded that the parent tyre material will tear before it detaches from the steel hub ridges. While I don't see any problem with the solutions discussed here in my experience it is not necessary.
The process I used was:
Clean the steel hubs with degreaser.
Soak the hubs in POR 15 metal prep for 20 minutes. (I do this before painting all the parts in these kits.)
Sand the ridges on the hub where the tyre will attach with 60 grit sand paper.
Apply locktite 480 evenly to both ridges on the hub.
Place the tyre on a flat table with a thin rag under it to absorbe any 480 that will come through.
Push the hub through the tyre making sure it sits flat on the rag and table.
Wipe any excess 480 from the edge on the rim and make sure the type is also flat on the rag and table.
Attach two thick rubber bands over the edges on the tyre where the ridges meet the tyre.
Let the assembly sit for a few minutes and remove the rubber bands.
I have used this method on all 8 Armortek kits I have built and never had a tyre come loose.
Tom
Tom. Sounds very similar to what I did. Hope it works for you.
Jagdtiger 2020 number 40. With Gun Smoke, CO2 recoil and Driving on custom Brushless motors.
Leopard “ The Bear” build with a difference. Big power for good reason.
222 scout car
See my YouTube for video's https://www.youtube.com/@TheMinimivic/featured

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Paul Sparkes
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Re: Tyre problems and torsion bars

Post by Paul Sparkes »

To clarify:

The original Torsion bars are Classed as 5.5mm as I have been told by Armortek. They measure closer to 5.3mm.
I have been sent some 5.5mm bars from another forum member with I installed and it didn't feel any stronger so I have installed some 6mm on the front 2 axles. The difference is they are a LOT stronger, I will be adding a lot more weight to the front of my tank so I'm happy to take the risk but I do not recommend this is done by others. potential damage to other components is likely.
I am yet to test as Im working on a new tyre solution which will be a while before it's finished.
Jagdtiger 2020 number 40. With Gun Smoke, CO2 recoil and Driving on custom Brushless motors.
Leopard “ The Bear” build with a difference. Big power for good reason.
222 scout car
See my YouTube for video's https://www.youtube.com/@TheMinimivic/featured

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Chang
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Re: Tyre problems and torsion bars

Post by Chang »

Hi Paul,
I was thinking of replacing 6mm torsion bars on both the front and back two axles (four in total) , and would like to learn how will it potentially damage to other components. Thanks.

Chang
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